4 ms·

This just doesn't seem to be the case with the peers I know, and covid made everything worse for morale. Nobody really wants to work anymore, service speed has

by rabuse 4y ago

This just doesn't seem to be the case with the peers I know, and covid made everything worse for morale. Nobody really wants to work anymore, service speed has fallen off a cliff in my area (South Florida), staff shortages are still in effect, nobody wants to have kids/get married, etc.

shagie 4y ago
> Nobody really wants to work anymore In many parts of jobs that have public facing people, the perceived increase in the lack of civility has made those jobs much more difficult to accept for any length of time. The combination of job loss, retraining for jobs that don't deal with the public, and acceptance of austerity (including moving back in with one's parents in some cases) to have an extended duration of no income means that you don't need to accept a job that pays poorly or deals with uncivil people. I'm going to point to https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate that shows the unemployment rate equal to what it was in December 2019. People want to work and are working - they've just changed what they're working. If one wants to place blame on the "no one wants to work" I would suggest reading https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2022/03/03/are-boomers-the-answer-to-the-great-resignation/?sh=5ee0aa0644b6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2022/03/03/are-boom... and https://wapo.st/39vvXxP https://wapo.st/39vvXxP > service speed has fallen off a cliff This has resulted in a reduction of capacity in many parts of the service industry. > staff shortages are still in effect A lot of people upskilled in the past two years and those staff shortages will remain until a new cohort of workers exists in that area that lack the skills to get the better paying jobs that don't interact with the public. > nobody wants to have kids/get married While the marriage rate has dropped precariously, I'll point to https://www.statista.com/statistics/195951/marriage-rate-in-the-united-states-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/195951/marriage-rate-in-... and point out that the chart ends in 2020 and that weddings weren't things that were easily held in the past two years either. However, the trend that is shown in that graph is one that has lasted for three decades - not three years. However, https://www.statista.com/statistics/183663/number-of-married-couples-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183663/number-of-married... also shows an interesting chart where the number of married people has increased fairly consistently though the recessions are evident in there - I suspect we'll see another one. The "no one wants to have kids" needs to also be put into context of the percent of the cost of raising a child against the income and wealth for the generational cohort. https://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/pf/cost_raising_child/index.htm https://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/pf/cost_raising_child/index... shows a substantial increase in cost in the 2000 to 2010 timeframe. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cost-of-child-care-might-not-be-skyrocketing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cost-of-child-care-... puts it in a different light. Still, if one is paying off their own college loans it is difficult to think of adding to that putting away money for a child's college costs. If a household is living pretty much paycheck to paycheck or has significant debt that they're paying down for whatever reason, having a child with an additional amount of cost would be considered to be unwise for people who have a fiscally responsible mind.
- ozzythecat 4y ago
  I’d like to make a meta response to your post not about specific points you raised but how you made your point. I’ve been a fairly progressive or at least liberal my whole life. I also like to look at what the data tells us. I’m not certain that looking at “data” means we have real facts. At best, we have some quantitative representation that fits the narrative being pushed by its creators. Within progressive circles, I’ve seen data showing that the new generations are placing family on hold because they can hardly afford things, despite having “well paid” jobs. Other data shows that these millennials are all living with their parents. But then there’s another study saying something completely different. People slice and dice whatever information they have to fit whatever narrative. I’ve personally become less willing to engage in conversation or debate when someone comes in and claims to have the data refuting what everyone is seeing with their own eyes and living day to day. It’s like in Seattle. We have homicides, shootings about every week. A woman was recently beaten with a baseball bat at a transit station. But then the local government and its outsourced “activist” advisors say we cannot and should not lock up the suspect (who confessed) because he’s a minority, and minorities have faced systemic racism, etc etc. and the real solution is to increase taxes on billionaires. “I have some data, therefore I know more and I’m right and everyone else is wrong.” No thanks.
  - judahmeek 4y ago
    All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented. It's true that data must be judged for relevance & validity, but to just discard it in preference of your opinion is really egotistical. Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes. So your example of Seattle choosing what you consider to be the wrong solution is not a very persuasive argument against collecting & using data itself.
    - ozzythecat 4y ago
      > All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented. Not at all. I’m simply saying that anyone can fudge the numbers and claim to have “data” to support their argument. > Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes. It offers an easily distortable “perspective”, and the same dataset is often misrepresented and twisted for convenience. It’s a recurring theme, especially in leftist politics. Using “data” to spin a narrative and tell people the sky is pink when they can clearly see it’s blue.
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
Morale falls off a cliff when hard work isn't properly rewarded or if the customers are too uppity.
weakfish 4y ago
Nobody wants to work because no human feels that the abuse service workers receive is worth a wage fundamentally too low to live on.

by rabuse 4y ago

shagie 4y ago

> Nobody really wants to work anymore In many parts of jobs that have public facing people, the perceived increase in the lack of civility has made those jobs much more difficult to accept for any length of time. The combination of job loss, retraining for jobs that don't deal with the public, and acceptance of austerity (including moving back in with one's parents in some cases) to have an extended duration of no income means that you don't need to accept a job that pays poorly or deals with uncivil people. I'm going to point to https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate that shows the unemployment rate equal to what it was in December 2019. People want to work and are working - they've just changed what they're working. If one wants to place blame on the "no one wants to work" I would suggest reading https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2022/03/03/are-boomers-the-answer-to-the-great-resignation/?sh=5ee0aa0644b6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2022/03/03/are-boom... and https://wapo.st/39vvXxP https://wapo.st/39vvXxP > service speed has fallen off a cliff This has resulted in a reduction of capacity in many parts of the service industry. > staff shortages are still in effect A lot of people upskilled in the past two years and those staff shortages will remain until a new cohort of workers exists in that area that lack the skills to get the better paying jobs that don't interact with the public. > nobody wants to have kids/get married While the marriage rate has dropped precariously, I'll point to https://www.statista.com/statistics/195951/marriage-rate-in-the-united-states-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/195951/marriage-rate-in-... and point out that the chart ends in 2020 and that weddings weren't things that were easily held in the past two years either. However, the trend that is shown in that graph is one that has lasted for three decades - not three years. However, https://www.statista.com/statistics/183663/number-of-married-couples-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183663/number-of-married... also shows an interesting chart where the number of married people has increased fairly consistently though the recessions are evident in there - I suspect we'll see another one. The "no one wants to have kids" needs to also be put into context of the percent of the cost of raising a child against the income and wealth for the generational cohort. https://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/pf/cost_raising_child/index.htm https://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/pf/cost_raising_child/index... shows a substantial increase in cost in the 2000 to 2010 timeframe. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cost-of-child-care-might-not-be-skyrocketing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-cost-of-child-care-... puts it in a different light. Still, if one is paying off their own college loans it is difficult to think of adding to that putting away money for a child's college costs. If a household is living pretty much paycheck to paycheck or has significant debt that they're paying down for whatever reason, having a child with an additional amount of cost would be considered to be unwise for people who have a fiscally responsible mind.

ozzythecat 4y ago
I’d like to make a meta response to your post not about specific points you raised but how you made your point. I’ve been a fairly progressive or at least liberal my whole life. I also like to look at what the data tells us. I’m not certain that looking at “data” means we have real facts. At best, we have some quantitative representation that fits the narrative being pushed by its creators. Within progressive circles, I’ve seen data showing that the new generations are placing family on hold because they can hardly afford things, despite having “well paid” jobs. Other data shows that these millennials are all living with their parents. But then there’s another study saying something completely different. People slice and dice whatever information they have to fit whatever narrative. I’ve personally become less willing to engage in conversation or debate when someone comes in and claims to have the data refuting what everyone is seeing with their own eyes and living day to day. It’s like in Seattle. We have homicides, shootings about every week. A woman was recently beaten with a baseball bat at a transit station. But then the local government and its outsourced “activist” advisors say we cannot and should not lock up the suspect (who confessed) because he’s a minority, and minorities have faced systemic racism, etc etc. and the real solution is to increase taxes on billionaires. “I have some data, therefore I know more and I’m right and everyone else is wrong.” No thanks.
- judahmeek 4y ago
  All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented. It's true that data must be judged for relevance & validity, but to just discard it in preference of your opinion is really egotistical. Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes. So your example of Seattle choosing what you consider to be the wrong solution is not a very persuasive argument against collecting & using data itself.
  - ozzythecat 4y ago
    > All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented. Not at all. I’m simply saying that anyone can fudge the numbers and claim to have “data” to support their argument. > Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes. It offers an easily distortable “perspective”, and the same dataset is often misrepresented and twisted for convenience. It’s a recurring theme, especially in leftist politics. Using “data” to spin a narrative and tell people the sky is pink when they can clearly see it’s blue.

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

Morale falls off a cliff when hard work isn't properly rewarded or if the customers are too uppity.

weakfish 4y ago

Nobody wants to work because no human feels that the abuse service workers receive is worth a wage fundamentally too low to live on.