2 ms·

But If say country X had a law like "if you knowingly present fake shit in an ad all in the know will pay with their life" this shit could not happen, we would

But If say country X had a law like "if you knowingly present fake shit in an ad all in the know will pay with their life" this shit could not happen, we would need to make the people involved in fabricating false stuff pay proportional with the damage. You pay for someone to fake some scientific paper - you pay , you Photoshop some images to mislead people you pay proportional with the damage caused plus some 10% of your wealth, you present yourself with fake identity or credentials you pay... Companies continue to produce this fake ads, fake press releases, fake stats because they are never forced to pay a big fine.

at_a_remove 5y ago
Most of this stuff comes out after all of the principals are retired and/or dead. This is true of government issues as well, take Tuskeegee. Nobody went to jail for that. And you have to consider the "chain of presenting false information." Is Facebook gonna take the hit? "No, we were just doing what we were told. It isn't like we replicate scientific studies ourselves." How about Cindy, who sent the press release about the study to Facebook? Step back, Desmond wrote the press release that Cindy sent, are you going to get him, too? Just trying to legislate this calculus of culpability is going to be filled with loopholes.
- simion314 5y ago
  I was talking about intention and damages. Say Bob is an idiot, he publishes a video with a flawed experiment where he proves the Earth is flat. There are no damages and Bob really believes Earth is flat so a judge will not find this idiot guilty. Other case, Bill is is greedy bastard, he wants to sell some pills that make penises grow, Bill uses Phtotoshop to make a false medical diploma, Bill also creates fake studies to show his pills contain some magic shit, Bill also has some partners that know this is bullshit (and there is evidence in emails on how they plan to sucker people). IMO this is a clear case where an ad, or FB post, or blog post that uses fake studies, fake credentials, fake documents intentionally to cause others harm is something a judge can act on and no free speech should allow intentional fake advertising/promotion . But say Jimmy is an idiot and he also shared this because he is stupid, he will not be found guilty. Say a political group also uses Photoshop, or fakes documents or uses a third party and asks them to create this fake evidence then they should also pay. So my point is that not FB or YT does the police, but if we have laws and make the guilty pay then there should be less intentional publishing of fake shit. We are still left with idiots that believe false shit and the foreign actorsm paid trolls, maybe you can think on ways to catch this paid foreign trolls. What FB and YT can do is to update theyr algorithm to not amplify this garbage, your free speech right is not giving you the right to be amplified and promoted, you have the right to share to your friends the latest conspiracy but Fb has the right not to push it to others with their shit algorithm.
  - at_a_remove 5y ago
    That doesn't really address, though, the tobacco studies. Carefully selection of candidates, some p-hacking, and so on. There are numerous ways to put your thumb on the scale. It isn't just Dr. Nick faking up a degree. On top of it, you would need some kind of centralized registry, overseen by humans, of what is real and what is fake, for legal purposes. Once that Ministry of Truth exists, how do you get your MKUltra knowledge out? Remember, that was a nutty conspiracy theory for decades. The Ministry of Truth just crushes it because they are part of the government, and poof, you never find out.
    - simion314 4y ago
      Yes, I can create on the spot a perfect law that address all the angless of fake misinformation, maybe you can contribute a suggestion like "all scientific papers will list the authors and who pays them, and discloses all conflict of interests and add giant fines for the authors and for the institutions behind the paper". So we don't censor the papers, we force them to be even more transparent and make sure guilty people get punished, including maybe the individuals behind big companies( put Elon in prison if he signed of on some shity statistic that misleads people that his cars are 10x safer)

at_a_remove 5y ago

Most of this stuff comes out after all of the principals are retired and/or dead. This is true of government issues as well, take Tuskeegee. Nobody went to jail for that. And you have to consider the "chain of presenting false information." Is Facebook gonna take the hit? "No, we were just doing what we were told. It isn't like we replicate scientific studies ourselves." How about Cindy, who sent the press release about the study to Facebook? Step back, Desmond wrote the press release that Cindy sent, are you going to get him, too? Just trying to legislate this calculus of culpability is going to be filled with loopholes.

simion314 5y ago
I was talking about intention and damages. Say Bob is an idiot, he publishes a video with a flawed experiment where he proves the Earth is flat. There are no damages and Bob really believes Earth is flat so a judge will not find this idiot guilty. Other case, Bill is is greedy bastard, he wants to sell some pills that make penises grow, Bill uses Phtotoshop to make a false medical diploma, Bill also creates fake studies to show his pills contain some magic shit, Bill also has some partners that know this is bullshit (and there is evidence in emails on how they plan to sucker people). IMO this is a clear case where an ad, or FB post, or blog post that uses fake studies, fake credentials, fake documents intentionally to cause others harm is something a judge can act on and no free speech should allow intentional fake advertising/promotion . But say Jimmy is an idiot and he also shared this because he is stupid, he will not be found guilty. Say a political group also uses Photoshop, or fakes documents or uses a third party and asks them to create this fake evidence then they should also pay. So my point is that not FB or YT does the police, but if we have laws and make the guilty pay then there should be less intentional publishing of fake shit. We are still left with idiots that believe false shit and the foreign actorsm paid trolls, maybe you can think on ways to catch this paid foreign trolls. What FB and YT can do is to update theyr algorithm to not amplify this garbage, your free speech right is not giving you the right to be amplified and promoted, you have the right to share to your friends the latest conspiracy but Fb has the right not to push it to others with their shit algorithm.
- at_a_remove 5y ago
  That doesn't really address, though, the tobacco studies. Carefully selection of candidates, some p-hacking, and so on. There are numerous ways to put your thumb on the scale. It isn't just Dr. Nick faking up a degree. On top of it, you would need some kind of centralized registry, overseen by humans, of what is real and what is fake, for legal purposes. Once that Ministry of Truth exists, how do you get your MKUltra knowledge out? Remember, that was a nutty conspiracy theory for decades. The Ministry of Truth just crushes it because they are part of the government, and poof, you never find out.
  - simion314 4y ago
    Yes, I can create on the spot a perfect law that address all the angless of fake misinformation, maybe you can contribute a suggestion like "all scientific papers will list the authors and who pays them, and discloses all conflict of interests and add giant fines for the authors and for the institutions behind the paper". So we don't censor the papers, we force them to be even more transparent and make sure guilty people get punished, including maybe the individuals behind big companies( put Elon in prison if he signed of on some shity statistic that misleads people that his cars are 10x safer)