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So for you Trans-People are a sign that the end is near? If that's your biggest worry I'd really like to be in your situation.

by 4ggr0 5y ago

pelasaco 5y ago
I know nothing about this topic, and I never looked into this topic, but for some specialists, yes https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5mjz54/does_a_cultural_shift_towards_androgyny_mark_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5mjz54/does_... Note: No, reddit isn't a good source, but It was the first one that i found. Searching for Camille Paglia and transgender you will find more information about it..
cato_the_elder 5y ago
No, gender dysphoria has existed since like forever. But it's certainly not a good sign when our institutions try to indoctrinate us with gender ideology. [1] The day it really becomes "the science" is the day I will lose hope in the rest of the apparatus. Lysenkoism [2] be damned. [1]: And by that I mean believing that we should behave as if there are no differences between biological females and MTF, or that it's all just a "social construct", or that we have a moral duty to "deconstruct" all social constructs which interfere with some ideology. [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
- mikkergp 5y ago
  What’s it like to have such strong feelings about gender? I don’t have that, the idea that it’s all just a social construct is so embedded in the way I see the world, I just don’t see how anything about sexuality or biology are immutably connected to gender identity. To me the two are completely divorced from each other.
  - cato_the_elder 5y ago
    Interesting, doesn't that Lia Thomas photo [1] make you laugh (or make you angry if you care about college swimming)? [2] > To me the two are completely divorced from each other. Some of it certainly could be. But insisting that it's all just a social construct makes it hard to explain things which are prevalent and similar across different cultures. (e.g. females growing their hair, or them being generally "cleaner", or intonation differences, etc.) Or even more broadly, the fact that males and females of different cultures can be attracted to each other, even though the exact gender expressions might be different. [1]: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOHlDIxWQAAaJwX?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOHlDIxWQAAaJwX?format=jpg&name=... [2]: It certainly does for many people, to the extent that the scene could come from a South Park episode: https://www.vgr.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2022_03/FB_IMG_1647639884189.jpg.196955d15662d93e6c5e4f79e469d3b7.jpg https://www.vgr.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2022_03/FB_IMG_164...
    - mikkergp 5y ago
      I can observe that Gender is one of the strongest social constructs that we have. But I think most of the ideas around them; Men shouldn’t cry, women are better caretakers; are not inherent, they’re a function of inertia. You can probably find more examples of people who don’t fit the mold in one way or the other than people who do. Also, women not being “woman enough” for sports has been an issue prior to the idea of transition. See Surya Bonaly and Caster Semenya
kderbyma 5y ago
what is your biggest worry for society? Also...what does society mean to you, and would you consider in the context of your reply that there may be different perspectives and possibly multiple societies simultaneously so perhaps clarifying your scope of society and it's impacts.
- 4ggr0 5y ago
  > what is your biggest worry for society? Climate change, wealth gaps, and both combined. (Richer people can escape the effects of climate change more easily). I fear that wealth will become even more important, furthering the gap between classes even more. > what does society mean to you Depends on what context. Of course for my direct political environment, people living in the same country as I are the biggest society I can lump together. But I'm not very nationalistic so I try to think about what's best for people globally. I think the most important society to me is all humans on earth. Else, every nation or group just looks after themselves. > would you consider in the context of your reply that there may be different perspectives Yes, but - I fail to see what group of people transsexuality would be the biggest danger to. Even when it goes against your world-view or religion, there is no harm done at all when someone is transsexual. It just goes against ones opinions. That's why I disagree heavily with the sentiment that "when men turn into women, that is a sign that the end is near". If transsexuality is more dangerous to a person than climate change, social injustice or other big topics, it really just does feel like fear-mongering and blaming arbitrary boogeymen for what's going wrong at the moment.

So for you Trans-People are a sign that the end is near? If that's your biggest worry I'd really like to be in your situation.

by 4ggr0 5y ago

So for you Trans-People are a sign that the end is near? If that's your biggest worry I'd really like to be in your situation.

pelasaco 5y ago

I know nothing about this topic, and I never looked into this topic, but for some specialists, yes https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5mjz54/does_a_cultural_shift_towards_androgyny_mark_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5mjz54/does_... Note: No, reddit isn't a good source, but It was the first one that i found. Searching for Camille Paglia and transgender you will find more information about it..

cato_the_elder 5y ago

No, gender dysphoria has existed since like forever. But it's certainly not a good sign when our institutions try to indoctrinate us with gender ideology. [1] The day it really becomes "the science" is the day I will lose hope in the rest of the apparatus. Lysenkoism [2] be damned. [1]: And by that I mean believing that we should behave as if there are no differences between biological females and MTF, or that it's all just a "social construct", or that we have a moral duty to "deconstruct" all social constructs which interfere with some ideology. [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

mikkergp 5y ago
What’s it like to have such strong feelings about gender? I don’t have that, the idea that it’s all just a social construct is so embedded in the way I see the world, I just don’t see how anything about sexuality or biology are immutably connected to gender identity. To me the two are completely divorced from each other.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  Interesting, doesn't that Lia Thomas photo [1] make you laugh (or make you angry if you care about college swimming)? [2] > To me the two are completely divorced from each other. Some of it certainly could be. But insisting that it's all just a social construct makes it hard to explain things which are prevalent and similar across different cultures. (e.g. females growing their hair, or them being generally "cleaner", or intonation differences, etc.) Or even more broadly, the fact that males and females of different cultures can be attracted to each other, even though the exact gender expressions might be different. [1]: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOHlDIxWQAAaJwX?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOHlDIxWQAAaJwX?format=jpg&name=... [2]: It certainly does for many people, to the extent that the scene could come from a South Park episode: https://www.vgr.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2022_03/FB_IMG_1647639884189.jpg.196955d15662d93e6c5e4f79e469d3b7.jpg https://www.vgr.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2022_03/FB_IMG_164...
  - mikkergp 5y ago
    I can observe that Gender is one of the strongest social constructs that we have. But I think most of the ideas around them; Men shouldn’t cry, women are better caretakers; are not inherent, they’re a function of inertia. You can probably find more examples of people who don’t fit the mold in one way or the other than people who do. Also, women not being “woman enough” for sports has been an issue prior to the idea of transition. See Surya Bonaly and Caster Semenya

kderbyma 5y ago

what is your biggest worry for society? Also...what does society mean to you, and would you consider in the context of your reply that there may be different perspectives and possibly multiple societies simultaneously so perhaps clarifying your scope of society and it's impacts.

4ggr0 5y ago
> what is your biggest worry for society? Climate change, wealth gaps, and both combined. (Richer people can escape the effects of climate change more easily). I fear that wealth will become even more important, furthering the gap between classes even more. > what does society mean to you Depends on what context. Of course for my direct political environment, people living in the same country as I are the biggest society I can lump together. But I'm not very nationalistic so I try to think about what's best for people globally. I think the most important society to me is all humans on earth. Else, every nation or group just looks after themselves. > would you consider in the context of your reply that there may be different perspectives Yes, but - I fail to see what group of people transsexuality would be the biggest danger to. Even when it goes against your world-view or religion, there is no harm done at all when someone is transsexual. It just goes against ones opinions. That's why I disagree heavily with the sentiment that "when men turn into women, that is a sign that the end is near". If transsexuality is more dangerous to a person than climate change, social injustice or other big topics, it really just does feel like fear-mongering and blaming arbitrary boogeymen for what's going wrong at the moment.