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As much as I worry about online bullying (not quite legally hate speech, but obviously hate speech) and also misinformation (anti-vax, etc), I think that anyth

As much as I worry about online bullying (not quite legally hate speech, but obviously hate speech) and also misinformation (anti-vax, etc), I think that anything that squelches the ability to have open discussions on any topic is wrong. It seems that we've strongly overgeneralized any fake news to be anything that is antithetical to the idea du jour, whether there is any merit to the idea or not. This harms society in 2 ways: 1. It could be that the idea du jour, or parts of it are wrong, maybe not the central idea, but maybe its ramifications, or edge cases. 2. People having been indoctrinated differently, with a different set of inputs, will naturally come to a different set of conclusions. Their conclusions might be wrong, but ostracizing folks and kicking them off of public discourse is guaranteed to make them hold fast to their wrong conclusions. Engagement and open discussions seem like the only way to get to the root of their (possibly) misguided ideas.

soco 4y ago
However Twitter and al are not exactly a place to hold discussions, by definition. They facilitate (if not straight up favor) quick visceral reactions and whatever type of bullying will feel at ease in there. So I agree with you on the point of censorship being bad, but disagree on calling bullying "open discussions". Yes I'm aware that real life bullying is in some places tolerated just as well, and I fully disagree to that too - does that make me a censor? Or if I ask for violence on the streets, am I having an open discussion?
- eigenrick 4y ago
  Twitter is definitely a bad place for nuanced discussion. I disagree about the 'and al', though. Other platforms are much better for for long form communication and open discussion, e.g. Reddit, Zulip, etc.
  - soco 4y ago
    I never heard of Zulip and kinda agree with you on Reddit (but which is also censored). To my unpopular point above I must clarify that most of the complaints about censorship are that it tries to censor traditional bullying attempts at minorities. Yes, there are also exceptions where unpopular thought pieces are attacked, but still, the big majority complains why can't they call names a certain group anymore.
  - soundnote 4y ago
    Reddit is bad for it largely because their moderators are ideologically mindkilled wackos. Threaded conversation as a format works nicely. But if moderation/admin is not sane, it won't work, and reddit admin is openly hostile to diverging views.
everdrive 4y ago
>It seems that we've strongly overgeneralized any fake news to be anything that is antithetical to the idea du jour, whether there is any merit to the idea or not. This will also lead to deep cynicism when when it comes to fact checkers and whether or not a particular narrative is "true."

soco 4y ago

However Twitter and al are not exactly a place to hold discussions, by definition. They facilitate (if not straight up favor) quick visceral reactions and whatever type of bullying will feel at ease in there. So I agree with you on the point of censorship being bad, but disagree on calling bullying "open discussions". Yes I'm aware that real life bullying is in some places tolerated just as well, and I fully disagree to that too - does that make me a censor? Or if I ask for violence on the streets, am I having an open discussion?

eigenrick 4y ago
Twitter is definitely a bad place for nuanced discussion. I disagree about the 'and al', though. Other platforms are much better for for long form communication and open discussion, e.g. Reddit, Zulip, etc.
- soco 4y ago
  I never heard of Zulip and kinda agree with you on Reddit (but which is also censored). To my unpopular point above I must clarify that most of the complaints about censorship are that it tries to censor traditional bullying attempts at minorities. Yes, there are also exceptions where unpopular thought pieces are attacked, but still, the big majority complains why can't they call names a certain group anymore.
- soundnote 4y ago
  Reddit is bad for it largely because their moderators are ideologically mindkilled wackos. Threaded conversation as a format works nicely. But if moderation/admin is not sane, it won't work, and reddit admin is openly hostile to diverging views.

everdrive 4y ago

>It seems that we've strongly overgeneralized any fake news to be anything that is antithetical to the idea du jour, whether there is any merit to the idea or not. This will also lead to deep cynicism when when it comes to fact checkers and whether or not a particular narrative is "true."