5 ms·

I think your ventilation notion is wrong because intensive use of this infrastructure will mean many, many electric motors generating heat. There will also be r

I think your ventilation notion is wrong because intensive use of this infrastructure will mean many, many electric motors generating heat. There will also be refrigerated cars, furthering the problem. Having said that, I strongly suspect that they've incorporated the ventilation solution already. >they're trying to build small-diameter tunnels like the Boring Company, but using the strengths of the format much more cleverly. Agreed. It's scarcely possible to use tunnels less cleverly than by putting large, single-occupant vehicles through them.

Arnt 5y ago
Ventilating well enough to cope with electric motors sounds much less demanding than coping with having both combusion engines and humans in the tunnels. Not to mention letting the humans escape alive in case a vehicle crashes and burns.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Yup. "Must be safe for humans" always shifts the costs an order of magnitude.
- arinlen 5y ago
  > Ventilating well enough to cope with electric motors sounds much less demanding than coping with having both combusion engines and humans in the tunnel. You will always have humans in the tunnel. How do you plan to perform inspections, maintenance, and even emergency support when a cart breaks down and blocks your tunnel?
  - hwillis 5y ago
    The acceptable conditions for "workers in the tunnel performing regular maintenance" and "a continuous stream of random people" are pretty different. Probably >10x less requirement for fresh air when >100x fewer people are breathing it. Ambient humidity might be lower, and even if it isn't the temperature only has to be workable rather than comfortable or at ambient. Worst case, you could shut everything down and let it cool off before sending people in. Certain emergencies would also be much easier to handle without people, like nitrogen purging a fire. Realistically I don't think you'd want to shut down the whole tunnel and wait for hours when you need to fix a problem, but it might work if there aren't many problems. It might work for routine maintenance if it's utilized like most packing facilities- deliveries go out in waves, with packing etc in between.
  - robonerd 5y ago
    > How do you plan to perform inspections, maintenance, and even emergency support when a cart breaks down and blocks your tunnel? With pigs of course. Not the ones that go oink though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  The London Underground actually has a heat problem despite using electric propulsion. Most of the heat in that situation comes from braking.
  - senortumnus 5y ago
    Interesting - I have noticed a distinct warmth in a deep station or two (ones with a huge escalator) while traveling there but assumed it was ground heat or something. TIL!
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    Wouldn't individual pods break by using the electric motor to charging the battery? I assume the London Underground can't use that method.
    - Arnt 5y ago
      It can and does, but that doesn't recover 100% of the brake energy. The Underground will still heat its surroundings, just by less than it did until recently.
Valgrim 5y ago
I'm not sure heat is such a problem. The movement of the cargo provides ample ventilation, the surrounding soil has a great thermal mass, and in the worst case it's easier to pump coolant through a pipe than to ensure a breathable, non-toxic atmosphere at all time.
hwillis 5y ago
a 95% efficient electric motor is still creating 15x less heat than a diesel engine, and zero carbon dioxide. Traffic will carry out hot air, heat will leave through the tunnel walls, and convection will also carry out heat. At the very least it is a MUCH less relevant issue.
- koolba 5y ago
  And any cargo container that requires stricter temperature tolerances itself be better insulated and refrigerated. That’s already how standard containers pulled by 18-wheelers operate.
  - hwillis 5y ago
    OP's point with refrigerated containers is that they are large sources of heat (since creating a cold volume heats up the external volume by a larger amount), not that they are more vulnerable to heat in the tunnel.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      Only if they run their heat pumps inside the tunnel. If they pre-chill and coast through the tunnel they'd extract heat. Overall it seems like a non problem with many solutions if any are actually needed.
panick21_ 5y ago
People act like Boring tunnel are designed to only ever allow single Tesla threw. They did that because Tesla are available for them quickly. Do you really think those peope are to stupid to understand that higher occupency can increase threwput?

Arnt 5y ago

Ventilating well enough to cope with electric motors sounds much less demanding than coping with having both combusion engines and humans in the tunnels. Not to mention letting the humans escape alive in case a vehicle crashes and burns.

moralestapia 5y ago
Yup. "Must be safe for humans" always shifts the costs an order of magnitude.
arinlen 5y ago
> Ventilating well enough to cope with electric motors sounds much less demanding than coping with having both combusion engines and humans in the tunnel. You will always have humans in the tunnel. How do you plan to perform inspections, maintenance, and even emergency support when a cart breaks down and blocks your tunnel?
- hwillis 5y ago
  The acceptable conditions for "workers in the tunnel performing regular maintenance" and "a continuous stream of random people" are pretty different. Probably >10x less requirement for fresh air when >100x fewer people are breathing it. Ambient humidity might be lower, and even if it isn't the temperature only has to be workable rather than comfortable or at ambient. Worst case, you could shut everything down and let it cool off before sending people in. Certain emergencies would also be much easier to handle without people, like nitrogen purging a fire. Realistically I don't think you'd want to shut down the whole tunnel and wait for hours when you need to fix a problem, but it might work if there aren't many problems. It might work for routine maintenance if it's utilized like most packing facilities- deliveries go out in waves, with packing etc in between.
- robonerd 5y ago
  > How do you plan to perform inspections, maintenance, and even emergency support when a cart breaks down and blocks your tunnel? With pigs of course. Not the ones that go oink though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging
bobthepanda 5y ago
The London Underground actually has a heat problem despite using electric propulsion. Most of the heat in that situation comes from braking.
- senortumnus 5y ago
  Interesting - I have noticed a distinct warmth in a deep station or two (ones with a huge escalator) while traveling there but assumed it was ground heat or something. TIL!
- panick21_ 5y ago
  Wouldn't individual pods break by using the electric motor to charging the battery? I assume the London Underground can't use that method.
  - Arnt 5y ago
    It can and does, but that doesn't recover 100% of the brake energy. The Underground will still heat its surroundings, just by less than it did until recently.

Valgrim 5y ago

I'm not sure heat is such a problem. The movement of the cargo provides ample ventilation, the surrounding soil has a great thermal mass, and in the worst case it's easier to pump coolant through a pipe than to ensure a breathable, non-toxic atmosphere at all time.

hwillis 5y ago

a 95% efficient electric motor is still creating 15x less heat than a diesel engine, and zero carbon dioxide. Traffic will carry out hot air, heat will leave through the tunnel walls, and convection will also carry out heat. At the very least it is a MUCH less relevant issue.

koolba 5y ago
And any cargo container that requires stricter temperature tolerances itself be better insulated and refrigerated. That’s already how standard containers pulled by 18-wheelers operate.
- hwillis 5y ago
  OP's point with refrigerated containers is that they are large sources of heat (since creating a cold volume heats up the external volume by a larger amount), not that they are more vulnerable to heat in the tunnel.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Only if they run their heat pumps inside the tunnel. If they pre-chill and coast through the tunnel they'd extract heat. Overall it seems like a non problem with many solutions if any are actually needed.

panick21_ 5y ago

People act like Boring tunnel are designed to only ever allow single Tesla threw. They did that because Tesla are available for them quickly. Do you really think those peope are to stupid to understand that higher occupency can increase threwput?