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What is your problem with advertising? And how do you hope the internet and tech would change? I have to say that I love the general notion of advertising (alt

What is your problem with advertising? And how do you hope the internet and tech would change? I have to say that I love the general notion of advertising (although I realize that this is not what is currently widespread): someone who created something awesome pays for my discovery costs. Without them paying for it, I might never put in the effort to find them - or I would not stumble across them. However, when I think about it, I currently have a hard time thinking of something that I only discovered due to ads and not (also) via another path

beart 4y ago
Not the OP, but I agree with the sentiment. Advertising is insidious. Since having children, I can really see how much of the economy is driven by getting them hooked on shit they don't need, and that is not good for them. It's the same for adults, but with different methods. Advertising is not free money. Just this morning there was an example discussed on NPR. Magazines targeting black communities ignored any and all evidence that smoking is bad because such a large portion of their budget came from tobacco ads. This type of thing happens _all the time_.
- kite_and_code 4y ago
  Trying to summarize: You hope that people would only use (and find) what is good for them? Instead of things that decrease their net wellbeing in life? If this is the case, there might be other solutions e.g. teaching all people to be careful what they consume and how they consume information. Another option might of course be policy about regulating advertising e.g. forcing them to always hint the customer to a web page that compares multiple offers that achieve the same, advertised outcome but in a different way or from a different provider. At least reminding people with every ad that there are other options out there. And if, eventually, the provider of the ad has the best offering, the summary page will reinforce that. The challenge that I see is on how to create the page and who authorizes it - especially given the wild variance among preferences of individuals.
Nextgrid 4y ago
My problem with advertising with regards to tech is that it subverted the majority of tech into eventually becoming an ad delivery and/or tracking mechanism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29513045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29513045 I sometimes envy other, more menial jobs because the tools they use day-to-day are still tools designed to help them do their job faster instead of trying to solicit "engagement". Plumbers' wrenches or electricians' screwdrivers don't come with a little screen and buzzer to beep at you every couple hours because you haven't "engaged" with it enough. In tech and most office jobs we are still forced to use a lot of consumer-grade "tools" (and major operating systems such as Windows, macOS, iOS and Android) which can technically be a lot more efficient (and less annoying) but aren't because of the advertising business model (and the same business model prevents them from offering a paid option). > I have to say that I love the general notion of advertising: someone who created something awesome pays for my discovery costs. As a consumer, I don't want to be forced to "discover" your product since in reality this "discovery" deliberately interrupts or slows down whatever other task I'm trying to do. Ironically, when I do want to discover new products, there is no actual "ad search engine" where I can enter a detailed search criteria (against the ads' targeting parameters) to find ads matching it despite it being trivial to build for any of the ad giants. I don't have any particular problems with old-school print/magazine advertising since those are still within the control of the user - I choose when I have time to look at the magazine and be exposed to its ads and I've already pre-filtered which ads I'll see based on the general topic of the magazine.
- kite_and_code 4y ago
  Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I learned something new via this! So, it seems like you would prefer if many of the businesses that currently choose an advertising business model choose another one. Is this correct?
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    That's correct - I don't mind advertising being there as an option, just that the whole business model of it doesn't make that possible - the people who would rather pay not to see ads are those that commend the highest ad rates, so the only way out is to outright ban it or make it unprofitable with draconian regulation.
ryandvm 4y ago
Unsolicited advertising is theft. Bold claim, I know, but some axioms to back this up: * My attention is a finite resource * My attention has a non-zero value (the advertising market wouldn't exist otherwise) * Advertising consumes my attention Ergo, if I have not agreed for you consume my attention, you are taking something from me without my permission. The very definition of theft. The tricky bit is defining "unsolicited". If I requested content from your web site, I think I have given you implicit permission to advertise to me. If I am watching your TV channel, you have a right to show me advertising. If I'm on your property, you have a right to display whatever you want. But if I'm driving down a public highway, you do not have a right to steal my attention with a billboard. If I'm laying on a public beach, you do not have a right to distract me with an airplane towing your tacky-ass sign through the air. That said, there is no way I'm wasting my genie wish on ad blocking...
- kite_and_code 4y ago
  Thank you for sharing your perspective! I did not see it in this way before. I am wondering: can you remember a situation in your life when advertising was beneficial to you?

beart 4y ago

Not the OP, but I agree with the sentiment. Advertising is insidious. Since having children, I can really see how much of the economy is driven by getting them hooked on shit they don't need, and that is not good for them. It's the same for adults, but with different methods. Advertising is not free money. Just this morning there was an example discussed on NPR. Magazines targeting black communities ignored any and all evidence that smoking is bad because such a large portion of their budget came from tobacco ads. This type of thing happens _all the time_.

kite_and_code 4y ago
Trying to summarize: You hope that people would only use (and find) what is good for them? Instead of things that decrease their net wellbeing in life? If this is the case, there might be other solutions e.g. teaching all people to be careful what they consume and how they consume information. Another option might of course be policy about regulating advertising e.g. forcing them to always hint the customer to a web page that compares multiple offers that achieve the same, advertised outcome but in a different way or from a different provider. At least reminding people with every ad that there are other options out there. And if, eventually, the provider of the ad has the best offering, the summary page will reinforce that. The challenge that I see is on how to create the page and who authorizes it - especially given the wild variance among preferences of individuals.

Nextgrid 4y ago

My problem with advertising with regards to tech is that it subverted the majority of tech into eventually becoming an ad delivery and/or tracking mechanism: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29513045 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29513045 I sometimes envy other, more menial jobs because the tools they use day-to-day are still tools designed to help them do their job faster instead of trying to solicit "engagement". Plumbers' wrenches or electricians' screwdrivers don't come with a little screen and buzzer to beep at you every couple hours because you haven't "engaged" with it enough. In tech and most office jobs we are still forced to use a lot of consumer-grade "tools" (and major operating systems such as Windows, macOS, iOS and Android) which can technically be a lot more efficient (and less annoying) but aren't because of the advertising business model (and the same business model prevents them from offering a paid option). > I have to say that I love the general notion of advertising: someone who created something awesome pays for my discovery costs. As a consumer, I don't want to be forced to "discover" your product since in reality this "discovery" deliberately interrupts or slows down whatever other task I'm trying to do. Ironically, when I do want to discover new products, there is no actual "ad search engine" where I can enter a detailed search criteria (against the ads' targeting parameters) to find ads matching it despite it being trivial to build for any of the ad giants. I don't have any particular problems with old-school print/magazine advertising since those are still within the control of the user - I choose when I have time to look at the magazine and be exposed to its ads and I've already pre-filtered which ads I'll see based on the general topic of the magazine.

kite_and_code 4y ago
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I learned something new via this! So, it seems like you would prefer if many of the businesses that currently choose an advertising business model choose another one. Is this correct?
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  That's correct - I don't mind advertising being there as an option, just that the whole business model of it doesn't make that possible - the people who would rather pay not to see ads are those that commend the highest ad rates, so the only way out is to outright ban it or make it unprofitable with draconian regulation.

ryandvm 4y ago

Unsolicited advertising is theft. Bold claim, I know, but some axioms to back this up: * My attention is a finite resource * My attention has a non-zero value (the advertising market wouldn't exist otherwise) * Advertising consumes my attention Ergo, if I have not agreed for you consume my attention, you are taking something from me without my permission. The very definition of theft. The tricky bit is defining "unsolicited". If I requested content from your web site, I think I have given you implicit permission to advertise to me. If I am watching your TV channel, you have a right to show me advertising. If I'm on your property, you have a right to display whatever you want. But if I'm driving down a public highway, you do not have a right to steal my attention with a billboard. If I'm laying on a public beach, you do not have a right to distract me with an airplane towing your tacky-ass sign through the air. That said, there is no way I'm wasting my genie wish on ad blocking...

kite_and_code 4y ago
Thank you for sharing your perspective! I did not see it in this way before. I am wondering: can you remember a situation in your life when advertising was beneficial to you?