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Putting physical fitness in the same bucket as height, gender, and race is a category error. Whether someone is fit or obese tells you a lot about their lifesty

Putting physical fitness in the same bucket as height, gender, and race is a category error. Whether someone is fit or obese tells you a lot about their lifestyle and daily choices. You cannot change your facial structure or tallness (yet), but fitness is definitely a signal for discipline and mental strength.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
...but fitness is definitely a signal for discipline and mental strength No, it doesn't. Not being fit merely tells you that they might have lifestyle choices different from your own. Or they might be female with PCOS. Or they might have a disease that causes fatigue or pain when they exercise. Heck, that might be the very reason for their desk job. Or a history of food insecurity and really need the insurance the job provides to be able to afford therapy, if they are even to that point. Heck, they might just not be knowledgeable enough to separate bad health advice from good health advice and despite trying things out, feel stuck. It isn't like I learned how to care for my body in school, after all. Health class focused on STDs and parts of the body while physical education classes were more focused on sports, rules, and being a good teammate. The reality is that being overweight only tells you that they are overweight.
- turing_complete 4y ago
  Thanks, it is not absolute certainty, it is, as I said, a "signal": It's about statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.
  - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
    You know you have this bias, though. People use the same sort of language for racism, homophobia, and such things. You can train yourself to think of exceptions to overcome some of the bias and honestly, if you are interviewing people, you should be doing so actively. It took me longer to type up the reply than to think of valid reasons this could happen to someone, after all. As you said, it isn't rocket science.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    > The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science. Quite an assumption you have there. Industrial food is cheap and crowds out normal food. Some areas are basically food deserts. A significant portion of the population also has health issues that complicate maintaining a healthy weight.
    - Brusco_RF 4y ago
      I've always been quite skeptical of the fast-food for the simple reason that when I am strapped for cash I buy rice and beans. No processed or fast foods even come close to rice and beans on a dollar-per-calorie basis. So called "food deserts" are a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Are the restaurants in your area a reflection of the eating habits of the people in that area, or a grand conspiracy to keep us unhealthy? I tend towards the former. I am also skeptical that even in "food deserts" an enterprising individual can't acquire rice and beans.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        For people struggling to pay rent, sometimes working multiple jobs and or with kids, there isn't a lot of energy or executive function left. And even rice and beans aren't terribly nutritious. If that's a staple for decades it can also cause obesity, especially for certain genetic demographics.
        Broken_Hippo 4y ago
        Not to mention that when you are struggling to pay rent, you are often struggling to pay utilities too. Time without water, electricity, or gas to wash, cook, and keep things cold seriously impact your ability to cook, even if you do have the time.
- grkvlt 4y ago
  true. but, it could also mean they are demonstrating traits that make them a more desirable candidate! for example, if they have recently made the decision to stop smoking cigarettes, thereby making a positive change in their lifestyle and health, this shows strength of character. it also demonstrates their ability to question past poor decisions rather than give in to the sunk cost fallacy, and then take steps to correct them. and of course, it also tends to make you put on weight [0] ... although not much more that 10 lb or 5 kg it seems, so interviewer beware, i guess ;) 0. <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000811.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000811.htm>
sundvor 4y ago
Agreed. I'd recommend keeping fitness a top priority especially as one gets older. Not only does everything get easier when not overweight, but the energy boost and appearance improvements certainly helps your confidence and presentation in every possible way. I'm not someone you'd consider a "pretty" man even by a long shot, but being fit with a healthy BMI makes a world of difference nonetheless. (I took serious stock some time not too long ago and realised weight lifting and being strong wasn't enough when actually overweight. Have dropped 15% of my body weight through dieting and the difference is amazing. I'm closer to fifty).
- ehnto 4y ago
  I don't believe attractiveness defines a persons value, I just know it changes how people behave around you, so you will probably see results if you can put some effort into being fit and put together. As you said, not everyone gets to be 'handsome' or 'pretty', but you can get a head way above the pack with fitness alone. I've always had a hard time articulating my advice on this matter, because it's easy to be shallow, and it's insensitive because not everyone can act on it. But for those who can, it's more about being pragmatic.
  - sundvor 4y ago
    Absolutely. You can work with what you got, and stop blaming the world for what you weren't given (e.g. a face with no deformities, for me; I'm happy the picture with resume is not a done thing in Australia). Telling people to HTFU has never been popular, but that doesn't mean it can't apply to most anyone. It might be small things like quitting alcohol, not using smart phones until the early hours every single night - so getting enough, better quality sleep. And getting a water carbonator with the money saved from the drink, thus improving your skin through better hydration. And squeezing some walks in here and there eg by parking further away, or taking the stairs, when before you wouldn't. Taking hard personal responsibility for your own health, I'm sure most everyone could find something to improve on. I have a long list still to go through for myself - but I've accepted that minor transgressions one day can be balanced out by being better the next few days. Thus one can achieve balance without going crazy. For me Intermittent Fasting has been an incredible eye opener, and weight shredder. This included learning about nutrition. On this, DIY food box deliveries (eg Everyplate, the simpler/cheaper version of Hello Fresh) are extremely high value compared to eg Uber Eats deliveries - both nutritionally, and financially. It takes effort, of course - but that's part of HTFU. Finally, going through a process of decluttering and cleaning my home after my separation - changing these habits have been very healthy for my mental state. Perhaps this goes twice for someone with ADHD, like myself. When I'm home now, I truly feel at peace; it's changed my attitude into a more positive one, which has improved my energy and clarity of thinking. It's all about habits, and mental and physical health interconnect; maintaining both certainly takes discipline and effort. The effects are observable, though, and everyone judges everything all the time on an unconscious level. Fair or not - as biological beings that's just how it is.
lukeholder 4y ago
I suppose it could also be a evolutionary signal. People have gotten taller over the centuries as nutrition has improved. So a tall, healthy looking person could be attractive evolutionary speaking.
aulin 4y ago
No it doesn't, there are plenty of disorders both physical and mental that can lead you to get overweight. There are plenty of people that are naturally fit without any effort. It says nothing about your ability to successfully accomplish a job. It's just another discriminating bias.
- turing_complete 4y ago
  It's statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago

...but fitness is definitely a signal for discipline and mental strength No, it doesn't. Not being fit merely tells you that they might have lifestyle choices different from your own. Or they might be female with PCOS. Or they might have a disease that causes fatigue or pain when they exercise. Heck, that might be the very reason for their desk job. Or a history of food insecurity and really need the insurance the job provides to be able to afford therapy, if they are even to that point. Heck, they might just not be knowledgeable enough to separate bad health advice from good health advice and despite trying things out, feel stuck. It isn't like I learned how to care for my body in school, after all. Health class focused on STDs and parts of the body while physical education classes were more focused on sports, rules, and being a good teammate. The reality is that being overweight only tells you that they are overweight.

turing_complete 4y ago
Thanks, it is not absolute certainty, it is, as I said, a "signal": It's about statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  You know you have this bias, though. People use the same sort of language for racism, homophobia, and such things. You can train yourself to think of exceptions to overcome some of the bias and honestly, if you are interviewing people, you should be doing so actively. It took me longer to type up the reply than to think of valid reasons this could happen to someone, after all. As you said, it isn't rocket science.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  > The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science. Quite an assumption you have there. Industrial food is cheap and crowds out normal food. Some areas are basically food deserts. A significant portion of the population also has health issues that complicate maintaining a healthy weight.
  - Brusco_RF 4y ago
    I've always been quite skeptical of the fast-food for the simple reason that when I am strapped for cash I buy rice and beans. No processed or fast foods even come close to rice and beans on a dollar-per-calorie basis. So called "food deserts" are a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Are the restaurants in your area a reflection of the eating habits of the people in that area, or a grand conspiracy to keep us unhealthy? I tend towards the former. I am also skeptical that even in "food deserts" an enterprising individual can't acquire rice and beans.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      For people struggling to pay rent, sometimes working multiple jobs and or with kids, there isn't a lot of energy or executive function left. And even rice and beans aren't terribly nutritious. If that's a staple for decades it can also cause obesity, especially for certain genetic demographics.
      - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
        Not to mention that when you are struggling to pay rent, you are often struggling to pay utilities too. Time without water, electricity, or gas to wash, cook, and keep things cold seriously impact your ability to cook, even if you do have the time.
grkvlt 4y ago
true. but, it could also mean they are demonstrating traits that make them a more desirable candidate! for example, if they have recently made the decision to stop smoking cigarettes, thereby making a positive change in their lifestyle and health, this shows strength of character. it also demonstrates their ability to question past poor decisions rather than give in to the sunk cost fallacy, and then take steps to correct them. and of course, it also tends to make you put on weight [0] ... although not much more that 10 lb or 5 kg it seems, so interviewer beware, i guess ;) 0. <https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000811.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patientinstructions/000811.htm>

sundvor 4y ago

Agreed. I'd recommend keeping fitness a top priority especially as one gets older. Not only does everything get easier when not overweight, but the energy boost and appearance improvements certainly helps your confidence and presentation in every possible way. I'm not someone you'd consider a "pretty" man even by a long shot, but being fit with a healthy BMI makes a world of difference nonetheless. (I took serious stock some time not too long ago and realised weight lifting and being strong wasn't enough when actually overweight. Have dropped 15% of my body weight through dieting and the difference is amazing. I'm closer to fifty).

ehnto 4y ago
I don't believe attractiveness defines a persons value, I just know it changes how people behave around you, so you will probably see results if you can put some effort into being fit and put together. As you said, not everyone gets to be 'handsome' or 'pretty', but you can get a head way above the pack with fitness alone. I've always had a hard time articulating my advice on this matter, because it's easy to be shallow, and it's insensitive because not everyone can act on it. But for those who can, it's more about being pragmatic.
- sundvor 4y ago
  Absolutely. You can work with what you got, and stop blaming the world for what you weren't given (e.g. a face with no deformities, for me; I'm happy the picture with resume is not a done thing in Australia). Telling people to HTFU has never been popular, but that doesn't mean it can't apply to most anyone. It might be small things like quitting alcohol, not using smart phones until the early hours every single night - so getting enough, better quality sleep. And getting a water carbonator with the money saved from the drink, thus improving your skin through better hydration. And squeezing some walks in here and there eg by parking further away, or taking the stairs, when before you wouldn't. Taking hard personal responsibility for your own health, I'm sure most everyone could find something to improve on. I have a long list still to go through for myself - but I've accepted that minor transgressions one day can be balanced out by being better the next few days. Thus one can achieve balance without going crazy. For me Intermittent Fasting has been an incredible eye opener, and weight shredder. This included learning about nutrition. On this, DIY food box deliveries (eg Everyplate, the simpler/cheaper version of Hello Fresh) are extremely high value compared to eg Uber Eats deliveries - both nutritionally, and financially. It takes effort, of course - but that's part of HTFU. Finally, going through a process of decluttering and cleaning my home after my separation - changing these habits have been very healthy for my mental state. Perhaps this goes twice for someone with ADHD, like myself. When I'm home now, I truly feel at peace; it's changed my attitude into a more positive one, which has improved my energy and clarity of thinking. It's all about habits, and mental and physical health interconnect; maintaining both certainly takes discipline and effort. The effects are observable, though, and everyone judges everything all the time on an unconscious level. Fair or not - as biological beings that's just how it is.

lukeholder 4y ago

I suppose it could also be a evolutionary signal. People have gotten taller over the centuries as nutrition has improved. So a tall, healthy looking person could be attractive evolutionary speaking.

aulin 4y ago

No it doesn't, there are plenty of disorders both physical and mental that can lead you to get overweight. There are plenty of people that are naturally fit without any effort. It says nothing about your ability to successfully accomplish a job. It's just another discriminating bias.

turing_complete 4y ago
It's statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.