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Ask HN: Does the Word “Developer” Demean Us?

In a recent CV workshop I suggested my students remove the word "developer" from their resumes because it's tepid, self effacing and meaningless. I was inspired by Hannah Smith's article on World Wide Waste [1], who asks - when did we stop being computer programmers, analysts, designers, engineers, and scientists and fall into the grey misery of "development"? What happened to creating, crafting, and inventing? Do the words we use to describe ourselves affect mental health, productivity, and the quality of what we make? Property "developers", at least in British parlance, are greedy opportunists who ruin a nice view, and would never get their hands dirty with a cement mixer or paintbrush. "Personal development" has replaced education and living. "Developments in the war" stand in for atrocities, routs and victories. I feel I am "developing" a headache just contemplating the banality of weak euphemisms. As we throw together "frameworks in the cloud" and "deploy solutions at scale", is an amorphous word like "developer" a way of excusing ourselves from understanding, and distancing ourselves from the consequences of digital activity? [1] https://www.thisishcd.com/episode/hannah-smith-the-hidden-weight-of-code

kevinherron 4y ago
I think this may be a cultural view - sounds like you’re from UK or Europe, maybe it’s taken on a little bit of a different connotation there? In the US I think the equivalent “low status” or otherwise “lesser” title might be just “programmer” vs “developer” or “engineer”.
aww_dang 4y ago
Others will have different views. My perspective isn't meant to demean anyone. Creating a concept from scratch, manifesting your own vision, and dealing with the business elements is more than just coding. This in my view is entrepreneurship worthy of the role "creator". There is much more to creating than just working with the text editor. Manifesting someone else's vision, offloading all of the leadership, creative efforts and business problem solving by just focusing on the code is just coding. Perhaps the title here is "programmer". The distinction is confusing when there are multiple roles that need to be filled. A social media person might reach out and then say, "Why don't you talk to our lead developer about this?". Maybe the outreach person can't close whatever the goal is, but the name "developer" can be interpreted as "programmer". This is confusing for all parties, because the listener wouldn't expect a programmer to close on a sale, brand partnership or other desired action. Creator vs. programmer nicely handles this distinction. However if every programmer without these extra attributes becomes a creator the distinction is once again meaningless. How many entrepreneurial creators are asking permission with resumes instead of self-actualizing with their own projects?
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  Some good thoughts. Thank you. The scale of specialism/generalism does seem to be a factor. Some people may use "developer" to keep the door open for their generalist credentials.
janmarsal 4y ago
No, it's neutral when used out of context. When put into the context of a descent well-paying job then it can be quite flattering even. It would be much more demeaning to be forced to market yourself with meaningless buzzwords just to stand out in the labour market. Once it's no longer considered enough to be a simple software developer then it's probably time to find a new profession in a different field.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  I guess the neutrality is what's good and bad. > Once it's no longer considered enough to be a simple software developer then it's probably time to find a new profession in a different field. I get that. People should not be forced to take on airs and graces. But I wonder, why would you not prefer to be an equally humble "simple programmer" or "simple designer" which puts forward a more descriptive identity?
jstx1 4y ago
Not at all. > when did we stop being computer programmers, analysts, designers, engineers, and scientists Never stopped - many many people still have those titles and/or use them interchangeably with "$x developer". It's a fairly neutral word, if you feel demeaned by it, I would tend to assume that there's a problem with you rather then with the word.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > I would tend to assume that there's a problem with you rather then with the word. Sorry my question didn't adequately distinguish self-identification from other-regarding (given) identity. I personality use the word about myself and others from time to time, but am being more thoughtful since I see it as a deflationary term.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    It seems like looking for a reason to be indignant about something and really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
    - nonrandomstring 4y ago
      > It seems like looking for a reason to be indignant about something and really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Not a very helpful or nice comment. Do yo have anythig useful to contribute to a sincere discussion?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
dalmo3 4y ago
Maybe just use "dev" then? It's cool and hip and whatever...
toast0 4y ago
> when did we stop being computer programmers, analysts, designers, engineers, and scientists and fall into the grey misery of "development"? IMHO, there's reasons to find all of those words unsatisfying, and software developer is vague enough to fill the gap. Computer programmer leaves out a large amount of the job that isn't programming . Computer analyst sounds like you are writing reports about computer systems (or systems with computers) and it's up to someone else to implement your recommendations. Computer? designer sounds like you're doing the visual work and not the technical work. Software designer might be appropriate, but people in that role usually call themselves software architects. Computer or software engineer sounds nice, but are we really doing engineering? Where's the analysis, where's the repeatability, where are the safety factors, where's the independent review, where's the liability when a system fails? You do see some of that in aerospace, but not much elsewhere. Computer science is only barely connected to developing software. There's not much science happening, really. So we're left with a catchall of developer, because 'working in computers' is dated.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  That's an interesting take - a kind of "default by elimination". Sorry not to spot this reply earlier.
gaws 4y ago
Isn't there a stigma for using software "engineer" if you're not a certified Professional Engineer? Developer is the proper alternative.

kevinherron 4y ago

I think this may be a cultural view - sounds like you’re from UK or Europe, maybe it’s taken on a little bit of a different connotation there? In the US I think the equivalent “low status” or otherwise “lesser” title might be just “programmer” vs “developer” or “engineer”.

aww_dang 4y ago

Others will have different views. My perspective isn't meant to demean anyone. Creating a concept from scratch, manifesting your own vision, and dealing with the business elements is more than just coding. This in my view is entrepreneurship worthy of the role "creator". There is much more to creating than just working with the text editor. Manifesting someone else's vision, offloading all of the leadership, creative efforts and business problem solving by just focusing on the code is just coding. Perhaps the title here is "programmer". The distinction is confusing when there are multiple roles that need to be filled. A social media person might reach out and then say, "Why don't you talk to our lead developer about this?". Maybe the outreach person can't close whatever the goal is, but the name "developer" can be interpreted as "programmer". This is confusing for all parties, because the listener wouldn't expect a programmer to close on a sale, brand partnership or other desired action. Creator vs. programmer nicely handles this distinction. However if every programmer without these extra attributes becomes a creator the distinction is once again meaningless. How many entrepreneurial creators are asking permission with resumes instead of self-actualizing with their own projects?

nonrandomstring 4y ago
Some good thoughts. Thank you. The scale of specialism/generalism does seem to be a factor. Some people may use "developer" to keep the door open for their generalist credentials.

janmarsal 4y ago

No, it's neutral when used out of context. When put into the context of a descent well-paying job then it can be quite flattering even. It would be much more demeaning to be forced to market yourself with meaningless buzzwords just to stand out in the labour market. Once it's no longer considered enough to be a simple software developer then it's probably time to find a new profession in a different field.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
I guess the neutrality is what's good and bad. > Once it's no longer considered enough to be a simple software developer then it's probably time to find a new profession in a different field. I get that. People should not be forced to take on airs and graces. But I wonder, why would you not prefer to be an equally humble "simple programmer" or "simple designer" which puts forward a more descriptive identity?

jstx1 4y ago

Not at all. > when did we stop being computer programmers, analysts, designers, engineers, and scientists Never stopped - many many people still have those titles and/or use them interchangeably with "$x developer". It's a fairly neutral word, if you feel demeaned by it, I would tend to assume that there's a problem with you rather then with the word.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> I would tend to assume that there's a problem with you rather then with the word. Sorry my question didn't adequately distinguish self-identification from other-regarding (given) identity. I personality use the word about myself and others from time to time, but am being more thoughtful since I see it as a deflationary term.
- jstx1 4y ago
  It seems like looking for a reason to be indignant about something and really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    > It seems like looking for a reason to be indignant about something and really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Not a very helpful or nice comment. Do yo have anythig useful to contribute to a sincere discussion?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

dalmo3 4y ago

Maybe just use "dev" then? It's cool and hip and whatever...

toast0 4y ago

> when did we stop being computer programmers, analysts, designers, engineers, and scientists and fall into the grey misery of "development"? IMHO, there's reasons to find all of those words unsatisfying, and software developer is vague enough to fill the gap. Computer programmer leaves out a large amount of the job that isn't programming . Computer analyst sounds like you are writing reports about computer systems (or systems with computers) and it's up to someone else to implement your recommendations. Computer? designer sounds like you're doing the visual work and not the technical work. Software designer might be appropriate, but people in that role usually call themselves software architects. Computer or software engineer sounds nice, but are we really doing engineering? Where's the analysis, where's the repeatability, where are the safety factors, where's the independent review, where's the liability when a system fails? You do see some of that in aerospace, but not much elsewhere. Computer science is only barely connected to developing software. There's not much science happening, really. So we're left with a catchall of developer, because 'working in computers' is dated.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
That's an interesting take - a kind of "default by elimination". Sorry not to spot this reply earlier.

gaws 4y ago

Isn't there a stigma for using software "engineer" if you're not a certified Professional Engineer? Developer is the proper alternative.