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Nope, unless your country has a special arrangement with the country you are visiting, you cannot work with a tourist visa, at all. Does not matter if the compa

Nope, unless your country has a special arrangement with the country you are visiting, you cannot work with a tourist visa, at all. Does not matter if the company is local or not. No work visa = no work.

oxfordmale 4y ago
This is a legal loophole for digital nomads. If I am connected to my work via a VPN, I am technically still working in the country of employment. I am not producing any commercial output in the country I am staying that I or my employer benefits from beneficially. I am 100% confident this has been reviewed by well paid lawyers at AirBnb who have zero sense of adventure, and that this is all water tight.
- bkor 4y ago
  > I am 100% confident this has been reviewed by well paid lawyers at AirBnb who have zero sense of adventure, and that this is all water tight. I hope you're being sarcastic here, no?
- JCharante 4y ago
  absolutely not that gets people in trouble if you get attention from the cops (source: been in south east asia for a while)
- maxlamb 4y ago
  I believe that’s not what government laws says (for any country). Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but pretty much all countries/states consider you working there if you are physically present there. Your VPN or where your “commercial output” is, is not considered a factor at all by governments.
  - oxfordmale 4y ago
    Most countries only care if you are taking a job that a local could have done. That is clearly not the case if you work remotely. If anything you are increasing local jobs by paying for your accomodation and food. Once again this has been reviewed by laywers at different companies who have deemed this risk to be acceptable. There might be countries that will arrest you if you read your corporate mail while on holidays, however, these generally not on the green list of safe countries to travel too.
    - jefftk 4y ago
      > deemed this risk to be acceptable Acceptable to the company. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's acceptable to you, especially if penalties would primarily fall on you for illegally claiming the wrong immigration status.
    - maxlamb 4y ago
      I understand that it would make sense for governments to not care since it’s money coming in and not displacing local workers. But the laws are still there, saying it’s illegal. If they weren’t, governments wouldn’t come up with special “digital nomad visas” for that specific situation.
    - digianarchist 4y ago
      Mexico is one of the few countries that legally allows remote work on tourist visas and a common complaint is that remote workers are driving up rents. Allowing unrestricted access to your country by remote workers will have economic impact.
- refurb 4y ago
  No, that's not how it works at all. There are several ways tax codes can categorize income: - the country the person was hired in (e.g. US) - the country for whom the work is complete for (say if US employee delivered code for a Canadian office) - the country the company who hired the person is located in - the country the company paying the employee is located in - the country the person was originally hired in (same as #2) - the country where the work is actually done A lot of countries just look at the last one. Doesn't matter if you were hired in the US, paid in the US dollars and US taxes are taken from your pay check. If you complete your work in country X, country X wants their taxes according to their laws. There is a separate aspect for the company. You as an employee might comply with all tax regulations - hired in the US, US taxes deducted, but you file your taxes in a separate country and pay taxes owed. But your employer may be out of compliance as well - they may need to be registered in the that country, have obligations for employer tax and social security payments, etc. It's mostly their own obligations companies are worried about. If the employee pisses off and breaks tax law in another country, well that's on them.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The reality of what the law says and what countries and companies do in this case are often very disconnected. But when it's a big or noticeable deal, then things come into play. US baseball players have to file Canadian taxes when they play in Canada, and if an exposition game occurs in Japan or London, taxes are filed there, too. If you're not trying to evade taxes, and aren't making much anyway, most places don't actually do anything, but if they decided they wanted to they could.
    - refurb 4y ago
      "If you're not trying to evade taxes, and aren't making much anyway, most places don't actually do anything, but if they decided they wanted to they could." Skirting gray areas is fine - working while on a 3 week vacation is likely not worth chasing down. Staying in a country for 4 months knowing that after 3 months you should pay taxes, but just pretending you're a tourist? That's pretty clearly trying to evade taxes.
- afavour 4y ago
  > If I am connected to my work via a VPN, I am technically still working in the country of employment. I hope this is sarcasm. A VPN is a technical detail that would never stand up, legally. The only situation where I can see a VPN being useful is within your own company: if they don't want you working remotely a VPN might help cover up the fact that you are. But aside from that it won't help you.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Law is all technical details and abstractions though. Where are you working if you are flying above various states and countries while VPNd?
    - midasuni 4y ago
      There are international conventions and it could be the country you are going to, flying over, or where the plane is registered. Or a mix of all 3. A better analogy would be if you worked remotely from a boat on the high seas on your own boat.

oxfordmale 4y ago

This is a legal loophole for digital nomads. If I am connected to my work via a VPN, I am technically still working in the country of employment. I am not producing any commercial output in the country I am staying that I or my employer benefits from beneficially. I am 100% confident this has been reviewed by well paid lawyers at AirBnb who have zero sense of adventure, and that this is all water tight.

bkor 4y ago
> I am 100% confident this has been reviewed by well paid lawyers at AirBnb who have zero sense of adventure, and that this is all water tight. I hope you're being sarcastic here, no?
JCharante 4y ago
absolutely not that gets people in trouble if you get attention from the cops (source: been in south east asia for a while)
maxlamb 4y ago
I believe that’s not what government laws says (for any country). Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but pretty much all countries/states consider you working there if you are physically present there. Your VPN or where your “commercial output” is, is not considered a factor at all by governments.
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  Most countries only care if you are taking a job that a local could have done. That is clearly not the case if you work remotely. If anything you are increasing local jobs by paying for your accomodation and food. Once again this has been reviewed by laywers at different companies who have deemed this risk to be acceptable. There might be countries that will arrest you if you read your corporate mail while on holidays, however, these generally not on the green list of safe countries to travel too.
  - jefftk 4y ago
    > deemed this risk to be acceptable Acceptable to the company. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's acceptable to you, especially if penalties would primarily fall on you for illegally claiming the wrong immigration status.
  - maxlamb 4y ago
    I understand that it would make sense for governments to not care since it’s money coming in and not displacing local workers. But the laws are still there, saying it’s illegal. If they weren’t, governments wouldn’t come up with special “digital nomad visas” for that specific situation.
  - digianarchist 4y ago
    Mexico is one of the few countries that legally allows remote work on tourist visas and a common complaint is that remote workers are driving up rents. Allowing unrestricted access to your country by remote workers will have economic impact.
refurb 4y ago
No, that's not how it works at all. There are several ways tax codes can categorize income: - the country the person was hired in (e.g. US) - the country for whom the work is complete for (say if US employee delivered code for a Canadian office) - the country the company who hired the person is located in - the country the company paying the employee is located in - the country the person was originally hired in (same as #2) - the country where the work is actually done A lot of countries just look at the last one. Doesn't matter if you were hired in the US, paid in the US dollars and US taxes are taken from your pay check. If you complete your work in country X, country X wants their taxes according to their laws. There is a separate aspect for the company. You as an employee might comply with all tax regulations - hired in the US, US taxes deducted, but you file your taxes in a separate country and pay taxes owed. But your employer may be out of compliance as well - they may need to be registered in the that country, have obligations for employer tax and social security payments, etc. It's mostly their own obligations companies are worried about. If the employee pisses off and breaks tax law in another country, well that's on them.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The reality of what the law says and what countries and companies do in this case are often very disconnected. But when it's a big or noticeable deal, then things come into play. US baseball players have to file Canadian taxes when they play in Canada, and if an exposition game occurs in Japan or London, taxes are filed there, too. If you're not trying to evade taxes, and aren't making much anyway, most places don't actually do anything, but if they decided they wanted to they could.
  - refurb 4y ago
    "If you're not trying to evade taxes, and aren't making much anyway, most places don't actually do anything, but if they decided they wanted to they could." Skirting gray areas is fine - working while on a 3 week vacation is likely not worth chasing down. Staying in a country for 4 months knowing that after 3 months you should pay taxes, but just pretending you're a tourist? That's pretty clearly trying to evade taxes.
afavour 4y ago
> If I am connected to my work via a VPN, I am technically still working in the country of employment. I hope this is sarcasm. A VPN is a technical detail that would never stand up, legally. The only situation where I can see a VPN being useful is within your own company: if they don't want you working remotely a VPN might help cover up the fact that you are. But aside from that it won't help you.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Law is all technical details and abstractions though. Where are you working if you are flying above various states and countries while VPNd?
  - midasuni 4y ago
    There are international conventions and it could be the country you are going to, flying over, or where the plane is registered. Or a mix of all 3. A better analogy would be if you worked remotely from a boat on the high seas on your own boat.