4 ms·

Not the city, but the locals who are not in tech.

lultimouomo 4y ago
The whole city suffers in the long run, as business get torn up to make a quick buck with rents, and the city becomes an empty fun park for tourists. The problem obviously exists beyond AirBnB, but AirBnB massively escalated the problem.
- maxthegeek1 4y ago
  If you want to enrich locals at the expense of tourists, the straightforward way to do that is just raise property/sales taxes and payout the revenue to locals.
  - lultimouomo 4y ago
    That doesn't solve the problem, you get a Dutch disease. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease
  - spaniard89277 4y ago
    That's fine if you want to punish people who manages to get out of rent slavery.
- berkes 4y ago
  Indeed, the entire city. In e.g. Amsterdam (a relatively tiny area, high tourism density) or Venice, in areas things have been pushed over. It's a spiral. E.g. something simple as "pharmacies" or "supermarkets". They leave/close because of less demand. Which decreases liveability, causing more locals to move out, causing more such businesses to close etc. These effects come next to "increasing house prices". It really is so problematic that cities like Berlin, Amsterdam (and I believe Venice) and many more crack down on AirBnBs. Hard. You are allowed to rent out the apartment where you live, but for limited time and with high fines or even extradiction on renting out beyond the limits (e.g. 90 days per year). You are certainly no longer allowed to have AirBnBs for the sole purpose of renting out to AirBnb. Edit: and in e.g. Berlin, AirBnB does not hand over the data of their users/renters (which Is good, I presume). So they have people scanning the renting-websites, visting homes and even posting outside to find evidence something is rented out beyond the allowed duration.
  - imiric 4y ago
    > You are certainly no longer allowed to have AirBnBs for the sole purpose of renting out to AirBnb. That's a ridiculous requirement. Owning real estate for the sole purpose of renting has been an income source for ever. Just because Airbnb exploded this practice in popularity doesn't give governments the right to say what purpose owners can use their property for. If Airbnb is causing issues, then address those specifically, not ban the practice of owning property exclusively used for renting.
    - spaniard89277 4y ago
      AirBnB is causing issues and the government is adressing it. I bet that many residents are asking for an outright ban of it. If I were in Madrid or Barcelona, I bet I'd do.
    - michaelt 4y ago
      Governments tell people what their property can be used for all the time. Even laissez faire countries like America use things like 'zoning' and 'setbacks' to control what you're allowed to do on your own property.
      - berkes 4y ago
        Ironically, the zoning in US is far, far more restrictive than in most of Europe. So bad, that you often cannot even have a neighborhood café, corner pub, or local shop in modern suburbs. So bad, that you need to take the car to do shopping. For someone from western Europe, this is mind blowing insane: you need to take the car to buy your milk!
      - imiric 4y ago
        Well, sure, but you bought property in those areas depending on if you wanted to run a business or use it as a residence. Maybe there should be a separate residence-as-business zone used for Airbnbs. Banning short-term rental properties feels like a quick bandaid to gain political points, not a solution to a market with a large demand.

The whole city suffers in the long run, as business get torn up to make a quick buck with rents, and the city becomes an empty fun park for tourists. The problem obviously exists beyond AirBnB, but AirBnB massively escalated the problem.

maxthegeek1 4y ago
If you want to enrich locals at the expense of tourists, the straightforward way to do that is just raise property/sales taxes and payout the revenue to locals.
- lultimouomo 4y ago
  That doesn't solve the problem, you get a Dutch disease. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  That's fine if you want to punish people who manages to get out of rent slavery.
berkes 4y ago
Indeed, the entire city. In e.g. Amsterdam (a relatively tiny area, high tourism density) or Venice, in areas things have been pushed over. It's a spiral. E.g. something simple as "pharmacies" or "supermarkets". They leave/close because of less demand. Which decreases liveability, causing more locals to move out, causing more such businesses to close etc. These effects come next to "increasing house prices". It really is so problematic that cities like Berlin, Amsterdam (and I believe Venice) and many more crack down on AirBnBs. Hard. You are allowed to rent out the apartment where you live, but for limited time and with high fines or even extradiction on renting out beyond the limits (e.g. 90 days per year). You are certainly no longer allowed to have AirBnBs for the sole purpose of renting out to AirBnb. Edit: and in e.g. Berlin, AirBnB does not hand over the data of their users/renters (which Is good, I presume). So they have people scanning the renting-websites, visting homes and even posting outside to find evidence something is rented out beyond the allowed duration.
- imiric 4y ago
  > You are certainly no longer allowed to have AirBnBs for the sole purpose of renting out to AirBnb. That's a ridiculous requirement. Owning real estate for the sole purpose of renting has been an income source for ever. Just because Airbnb exploded this practice in popularity doesn't give governments the right to say what purpose owners can use their property for. If Airbnb is causing issues, then address those specifically, not ban the practice of owning property exclusively used for renting.
  - spaniard89277 4y ago
    AirBnB is causing issues and the government is adressing it. I bet that many residents are asking for an outright ban of it. If I were in Madrid or Barcelona, I bet I'd do.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Governments tell people what their property can be used for all the time. Even laissez faire countries like America use things like 'zoning' and 'setbacks' to control what you're allowed to do on your own property.
    - berkes 4y ago
      Ironically, the zoning in US is far, far more restrictive than in most of Europe. So bad, that you often cannot even have a neighborhood café, corner pub, or local shop in modern suburbs. So bad, that you need to take the car to do shopping. For someone from western Europe, this is mind blowing insane: you need to take the car to buy your milk!
    - imiric 4y ago
      Well, sure, but you bought property in those areas depending on if you wanted to run a business or use it as a residence. Maybe there should be a separate residence-as-business zone used for Airbnbs. Banning short-term rental properties feels like a quick bandaid to gain political points, not a solution to a market with a large demand.