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The worst part in this _advice_ to me is that they are basically teaching their child that littering is okay. If you want to punish your child because you are

The worst part in this _advice_ to me is that they are basically teaching their child that littering is okay. If you want to punish your child because you are not patient enough to teach them correctly how to behave, at least don't do it while putting garbage everywhere. And also, using candy to _train_ kids is a good way to teach them bad food habits. But we came from different sides of the Atlantic so obviously we don't have the same opinion on food.

atoav 5y ago
On top of that: if they thought that kid before that littering is bad, the kid might spot that inconsistency and take away a different lesson altogether — that rules don't need to be followed if you are making them.
- mordae 5y ago
  But there is a lesson. That the other person may or may not like you depending on how you behave and may or may not be willing to extend courtesy based on that. Some things in your life are your rights, but some things you only get when you actively try to make people around you happy. Obviously parents are taking care of your basic needs and it is hard for them to switch between parent, teacher and friend at the right moments, but they are never just one thing. Kids probably should not learn that parents are demigods who make the rules.
  - lupire 5y ago
    I trust that my kids will learn that I am imperfect, without me intentionally misbehaving.
  - atoav 5y ago
    > But there is a lesson. That the other person may or may not like you depending on how you behave and may or may not be willing to extend courtesy based on that. This might be true on an symbolic level. But I am afraid children don't learn all that well on an symbolic level. They learn by imitation. What you proposed would work if the parent refused to do something they would normally do (e.g. lift the kid on their shoulders), to teach them that it is okay to refuse to do something for others if they are mean to them. What doesn't work is if the parent does something they ordinarily wouldn't do and blame it on the kid aka "look what you made me do". What this teaches the kid is that they can blame their own behavior on others if they think these others give them a valid reason to do so. Parents always teach by what they do not by how they explain it.
sschueller 5y ago
Also what are the kids going learn when you get pulled over and fined $10k for littering? Karma?

atoav 5y ago

On top of that: if they thought that kid before that littering is bad, the kid might spot that inconsistency and take away a different lesson altogether — that rules don't need to be followed if you are making them.

mordae 5y ago
But there is a lesson. That the other person may or may not like you depending on how you behave and may or may not be willing to extend courtesy based on that. Some things in your life are your rights, but some things you only get when you actively try to make people around you happy. Obviously parents are taking care of your basic needs and it is hard for them to switch between parent, teacher and friend at the right moments, but they are never just one thing. Kids probably should not learn that parents are demigods who make the rules.
- lupire 5y ago
  I trust that my kids will learn that I am imperfect, without me intentionally misbehaving.
- atoav 5y ago
  > But there is a lesson. That the other person may or may not like you depending on how you behave and may or may not be willing to extend courtesy based on that. This might be true on an symbolic level. But I am afraid children don't learn all that well on an symbolic level. They learn by imitation. What you proposed would work if the parent refused to do something they would normally do (e.g. lift the kid on their shoulders), to teach them that it is okay to refuse to do something for others if they are mean to them. What doesn't work is if the parent does something they ordinarily wouldn't do and blame it on the kid aka "look what you made me do". What this teaches the kid is that they can blame their own behavior on others if they think these others give them a valid reason to do so. Parents always teach by what they do not by how they explain it.

sschueller 5y ago

Also what are the kids going learn when you get pulled over and fined $10k for littering? Karma?