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> A wise man said, “Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates. At the first gate, ask yourself, “Is it true?” At the second gate ask, “Is it nec
by immigrantheart 4y ago
> A wise man said, “Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates. At the first gate, ask yourself, “Is it true?” At the second gate ask, “Is it necessary?” At the third gate ask, “Is it kind?”
What is kind? I am the straight shooter type. In the past I've gotten critiques from people about the way I speak, but also told by some people that the way I speak is fine. Maybe people just prefer different things.
I myself prefer people speaking straight to me.
I think I am kind, but not nice.
- WaxedChewbacca 4y ago
- agumonkey 4y agoThere's a subtle blend of straight and kind. Whatever the thing you have to say, if you have that person interest in mind it's still kind, even if it's tough.
- strgcmc 4y agoThis makes sense, to a degree. But at the extreme, the speaker should absolutely take care to avoid being overbearing, condescending, patronizing, etc. Many delusional people think, "I am saying/doing this for YOUR own good", so simply believing that you have the other person's interest is not enough. Or rather, in order to TRULY have someone else's interest in mind, you have to incorporate things like condescension as in-scope requirements for your communication. Otherwise, even good advice delivered in a straightforward but condescending manner, won't get through (which means, the person won't benefit, which means you the speaker failed to achieve the thing that would help advance their interest due to your poor communication).
- travisjungroth 4y agoIt’s not even just the lack of benefit caused by the message not getting through. I think people who communicate too intensely, too aggressively, forget that the communication is part of the listener’s life. If someone feels like shit when they talk to you, you’re already in the red for whatever net impact you want to have on their life.
- agumonkey 4y agoAnd often the best thing is to just listen passively.
- d4mi3n 4y agoContext, delivery, and choice of words matter. For example: * Give praise in public * Criticize in private * Any criticism offered should be constructive * Any criticism offered should be of ideas and actions, not individuals--regardless of how strongly one may feel * When in an argument, discussion, or debate, argue to the best possible interpretation of an idea or statement. Doing anything less is in bad faith, at which point you are not arguing to persuade but rather to make a point. I'm sure there are many other such examples. I highlight criticism here as in my experience critical statements tend to be most often given or taken badly.
- Cd00d 4y ago> at which point you are not arguing to persuade but rather to make a point Excellent concept. I think I get caught up in making points, and this framing will help me do better and making persuasion or agreement the final goal.
- d4mi3n 4y agoIt’s an easy transition to make. I find dialog like this is a lot like a meeting: without a good agenda and some level of rigor it’s easy for a conversation to go places you don’t intend it to go. For me, it helps to pause often and filter what I say before I say it as I often get carried away with topics I’m excited by or passionate about.
- timfsu 4y agoI interpret "Is it kind" as: "Will it have a desirable outcome" / "Will the listener receive this with the appropriate intention". Telling someone who made a mistake: "You screwed up" may be true and necessary, but saying something such as "Let's try that again" will likely lead to a better conversation and learning opportunity.
- nine_k 4y agoWhy, saying a thing which is untrue is at best a mistake, at worst, a lie. Saying a thing which is obviously unnecessary is spamming. It has nothing to do with being straight. Being kind, at the very least, improves the chances that you will be heard. If you have something true and necessary to say, it's a shame to say it in a way that turns people against you, and against your message.
- suprjami 4y agoThere's a difference. You can say what someone got right and also say it would be even better with this correction. Or you can call them a useless moron who doesn't know what they're on about. Shoot straight, but don't leave people feeling bad about themselves.
- Shared404 4y agoThis is the trick. The answer is always[0] "Perfect", "Yes, and...", or sometimes "Oh, what if...". [0] Yes this is hyperbolic. Everything has exceptions sometimes.
- AndyNemmity 4y agoI can't imagine anyone kind saying "I think I am kind, but not nice."
- NateEag 4y agoI see the two as quite different. To me, "kind" implies taking time and effort for someone, investing in them. That might mean engaging in conflict with them, if that seems to be what they need. "Nice," on the other hand, suggests to me being polite, delicate, and never making anyone uncomfortable. Niceness makes no enemies and wins no friends. It benefits the nice one more than anyone else, and is principally a strategy for staying out of trouble. Kindness costs the giver something, sometimes the risk of giving offense, sometimes their time, sometimes the loss of power and influence because of making an unpopular choice that helps someone who really needed it. It is principally a strategy for taking care of others. That's how I see it, anyway. YMMV.
- immigrantheart 4y agoYou worded it perfectly.
- NateEag 4y agoThanks. Glad I was able to help clarify.
- AndyNemmity 4y agoOkay, to me kind means the definition "having or showing a friendly, generous, and considerate nature." I'm not familiar with what you're describing, but I saw another reply with a twitter thread explaining something similar to what you're proposing, so perhaps I'm just out of the loop.
- NateEag 4y agoI think what I'm describing might fit into the "generous, considerate" part of the definition you cite. The senses I associate with the two words are probably more connotations than denotations, though.
- kristiandupont 4y ago>told by some people that the way I speak is fine Sorry but if that is literally what they said, I think they might not have been "shooting straight" with you. And this is obviously speculation, but perhaps that could have been because they didn't feel it was worth the potential blunt response they might have received from you if they said otherwise?
- jakear 4y agoJust don’t be mean. I read this a while ago, then observed an interaction at a bar that made me want to respond: A party kept moving from table to table. I have no clue why. But the waiter would need to go and clean every table that they left, for both basic sanitation reasons as well as COVID. Waiter didn’t know what to do to get them to stop. So he goes to bartender to tell him the issue. Bartender immediately says to them: “guys, every time you move we have to clean a table so pick a spot“. Party never moves again. Bartender could have thrown a bunch of “if you don’t mind”, “we’d really appreciate”, “please”, etc’s in, but didn’t. They also could have thrown some less pleasant adjectives in, but again didn’t. They explained the problem, proposed a solution, and left it at that. That’s the “nice” thing, IMO. Anything else is patronizing or aggressive.
- darkerside 4y agoSaying please is patronizing? But I do think this is generally a good example. Don't water it down if you are setting a boundary.
- jakear 4y agoMaybe not patronizing, but it does hurt your case. My team recently went though to remove “please” from all dialogs because user testing found phrases like “please reload to active X” resulted in more people ignoring the dialog and later wondering why X wasn’t activated than just “reload to active X”. I assume the bartender has run similar experiments.
- darkerside 4y agoI agree it doesn't belong on what are essentially street signs for mass consumption (i.e. Please Stop). If you are asking a fellow human being individually, I think treating others with respect only helps build a strong culture.
- imgabe 4y agoThere’s a trope going around that people on the East coast (of the US) are kind, but not nice. While people on the West coast are nice, but not kind. For example, if you get a flat tire on the West coast someone will come by and say “Aww man, you got a flat tire. That’s a real bummer man, that sucks”. and then they’ll walk away without doing anything useful. Whereas on the East coast someone will see you trying to change your tire and say something like “What the fuck are you doing you stupid asshole? Didn’t anyone teach you how to change a tire? Are you frickin retarded or something?” and then they’ll change the tire for you.
- librish 4y agoCan you give an example statement showing the difference?
- whiddershins 4y agoOne thing ‘straight shooters’ including me can overlook is that the listener isn’t in your head, and there are usually multiple interpretations of what someone says. Especially when you factor in what might be implied by what you said. Or what different implications a person might take away from what you said than what you meant, because their context or assumptions are different. One aspect of being kind (which I am working on) is trying to imagine different ways a simple, matter of fact, direct statement could be interpreted given everything the other person brings to the conversation.
- possiblydrunk 4y agoBeing kind is for the benefit of the receiver, being nice is for the benefit of the giver.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago> I am the straight shooter type I have not once seen a person say this about themselves and not be an asshole instead of a "straight shooter".