4 ms·

> my airplane > your airplane [lets go controls] Those are the words to be exchanged to avoid confusion.

willidiots 5y ago
Yeah, simple enough. Also simple enough to go-around when you're obviously slow and going to be short of the runway, but look at Asiana 214. I do wonder if there's some training deficiency or cultural issue that leads to this scenario in Air France flights.
- cryptonector 5y ago
  This makes me think of Loic Suberville's videos on language...
Retric 5y ago
Sure, just make sure that happens exactly that way 1,000,000 times without any failures… And that’s the root of many issues in aviation. It works 99.99% of the time is not always good enough.
- wahern 5y ago
  I wonder if this was part of some rare coincidence where their inputs were perfectly synchronized but out of phase in such a way that it made it difficult to consider the obvious. If you pull back but feel the plane and/or stick move laterally, and especially across multiple inputs without a clear pattern, it might more easily occur to you to think the person sitting next to you is also providing inputs. Whereas if you're synchronized across many inputs, that's just something that doesn't typically happen in nature, which tends to always have some stochastic quality; instinctively it's something you might assume would only involve a machine.
esoterae 5y ago
> my airplane > your airplane > my airplane
rmk 5y ago
"I have the airplane" or "my airplane" is an established practice, but over and above that, the stick/yoke/rudder pedals all actually give you feedback when the other guy is also handling them. That feedback gives the fliers another level of protection.
- antmldr 5y ago
  Agreed, but also given they initially thought the aircraft itself was deviating from a stable approach (or at least the ATC transcription appears to suggest that?), perhaps the pilots may have thought the feedback was due to autopilot and not the person sitting next to them.

Yeah, simple enough. Also simple enough to go-around when you're obviously slow and going to be short of the runway, but look at Asiana 214. I do wonder if there's some training deficiency or cultural issue that leads to this scenario in Air France flights.

cryptonector 5y ago
This makes me think of Loic Suberville's videos on language...

Retric 5y ago

Sure, just make sure that happens exactly that way 1,000,000 times without any failures… And that’s the root of many issues in aviation. It works 99.99% of the time is not always good enough.

wahern 5y ago
I wonder if this was part of some rare coincidence where their inputs were perfectly synchronized but out of phase in such a way that it made it difficult to consider the obvious. If you pull back but feel the plane and/or stick move laterally, and especially across multiple inputs without a clear pattern, it might more easily occur to you to think the person sitting next to you is also providing inputs. Whereas if you're synchronized across many inputs, that's just something that doesn't typically happen in nature, which tends to always have some stochastic quality; instinctively it's something you might assume would only involve a machine.

esoterae 5y ago

> my airplane > your airplane > my airplane

rmk 5y ago

"I have the airplane" or "my airplane" is an established practice, but over and above that, the stick/yoke/rudder pedals all actually give you feedback when the other guy is also handling them. That feedback gives the fliers another level of protection.

antmldr 5y ago
Agreed, but also given they initially thought the aircraft itself was deviating from a stable approach (or at least the ATC transcription appears to suggest that?), perhaps the pilots may have thought the feedback was due to autopilot and not the person sitting next to them.