8 ms·

I'll just leave this here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9PcGu_xrA&t=174s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL9PcGu_xrA&t=174s

YossarianFrPrez 4y ago
Great, simple solution, especially if the axes of motion are un-restricted.
Mandatum 4y ago
Simple Solution is often the best. Although I wonder what this adds to overall build costs?
ncmncm 4y ago
Nowadays panels are cheap enough that if you want more power than you get with them fixed in place, you just add more panels.
- psyguy 4y ago
  Are panels cheaper than the servo motor & Arduino used in this tool? Not to mention that at mass produced scales chip costs are usually 1/5 the price of an Arduino. What if every panel used these tools, we could increase the amount of power we gather from solar.
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    Yes. A 400w watt panel is 250$. When you account for labor and cost of all. The parts for a moving panel that can withstand high wind speeds…Placing more fixed panels is cheaper.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      > A 400w watt panel is 250$. Wait, panels are that cheap? Could you point me to a good place to buy them?
      - kurthr 4y ago
        https://watts247.com/product-category/solar-panels/new/pallet-new/ https://watts247.com/product-category/solar-panels/new/palle... I don't know what, where, or how many you want, but these are by the pallet (~30ea) and about $6500. You can get much cheaper with used ones. You get conservatively ~3hr of effective peak power per day (so a 400W panel will give you 1200Wh). You also need a DC converter for these to charge a battery or go to AC. Of course you'll want to mount them at the correct angle with a good view of the sun.
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        You generally have to buy them by the pallet-load, FOB ("free on board") at the source, which means you arrange shipping. Home Depot marks up 4x for local purchase. But used panels, at 80% rated output, are even cheaper, as low as $150. A few of those will fail, so you keep spares. They are often repairable in a few minutes if you are not afraid of a soldering iron, e.g. replace a diode or MOSFET. Any roofer will put in mounting brackets, and almost any electrician is happy to put in the panel.
        walrus01 4y ago
        Decent vendors such as sunelec.con will easily quote you a price for a one pallet load LTL freight shipment of a pallet of, say, 22 panels. Not like you have to arrange your own freight and often they get a better price because of they great monthly spend with the major us48 state LTL freight carriers. Be sure to specify if you need liftgate service at the destination or not, because that will affect cost, otherwise by default a pallet by LTL freight will need a loading dock to receive.
      - hedora 4y ago
        $3 per watt, installed on your roof is typical these days: https://www.remodelingcosts.org/solar-panel-costs-increase-seia-march-2022-report/ https://www.remodelingcosts.org/solar-panel-costs-increase-s... That includes labor, mounting hardware, inverters and grid tie in. It also assumes high efficiency panels. Watch out before buying older technology (lower efficiency) panels. Some have significant efficiency losses per degree Celsius increase in temperature.
    - fy20 4y ago
      In Europe they are even cheaper as we don't have high tariffs on Chinese panels. I can buy a 350W panel for €150 including taxes, or €100 if I go to the equivalent of Craigslist and don't care about warranties.
  - rockostrich 4y ago
    Maybe not bulk cost upfront, but surely the maintenance cost tips towards fixed place panels.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Our solar panels are rated to 115mph winds. What are these servo mounts rated to? Also, installation of the panels currently costs more than panels. They don't say (or I didn't find) how efficient the optimal fixed mount is, but the agent starts at 80%, so assume some fixed position is 80% of optimal. They increase that to 96%, so they reduce the number of solar panels by about 13%. If the installation labor cost increases more than ~26% because of the servo mount, then the servo mount hardware and frame would need to be cheaper than fixed mounts for it to break even. Similarly, the amount of aluminum being consumed by solar panel installions is non-trivial, and the movable frame is likely to increase that. However, this is still a cool hobby project with a nice writeup.
    - ehnto 4y ago
      > Also, installation of the panels currently costs more than panels. That's partly the racquet people set up to snag government grant dollars, but still true.
- kumarvvr 4y ago
  Exactly. Any mechanism that moves the panel to follow the sun, must be sturdy enough to also withstand high winds, which is inevitably costlier than proof of concept ideas. Better to add more panels. A better way to ensure more power output is to have a set of panels with a small battery back to automate cooling of the panels and cleaning of the panels.
  - f0e4c2f7 4y ago
    Interesting that the limiting factor is energy and wind. I wonder if you could devise a locking mechanism or something purely mechanical to solve it. Something closer to gears in a watch.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      That costs even more.
  - patrickk 4y ago
    Another concept involving the cooling of solar panels and how to use the heat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJixtZdkU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJixtZdkU0
    - rb666 4y ago
      Easy method to improve cooling of your panels is installing a sedum roof underneath. Plus such a roof has many more advantages.
- duckmysick 4y ago
  Something to consider is when adding more panels brings your total installation power over the limit of your net metering agreement.
  - shermozle 4y ago
    The intverter should be able to be configured with export limits. In a lot of jurisdictions that's mandatory anyway. Still better to over-specify so that in Winter you get the full amount while in Summer you just throw some away. Or take up a power-intensive hobby like Bitcoin mining in Summer.
    - duckmysick 4y ago
      As I understand, the limits regulate the total capacity of the installation not the actual amount of electricity produced.
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        That would be very peculiar. Unusual, anyway. Do you know anyplace that does it? Whose business is it what your total collection area is?
        duckmysick 4y ago
        Oregon limits residential customers to 25 kW (nameplate capacity). https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_860-039-0010 https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_860-039-0010 From the cursory look it seems like most states have limits like those. A lot of them are generous enough so you don't have to worry about it. But there are some states where covering an entire roof of a moderately sized building would put your over the limit. https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/net-metering-policy-overview-and-state-legislative-updates.aspx#statenet https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/net-metering-policy-ove...
      - tonylucas 4y ago
        Nope, at least for ours it limits on export produced (on a technical basis, not a planning permission one). It will deliberately downgrade the energy produced to ensure it doesn’t exceed export limits. You get used to optimising for sunshine for when you run power heavy equipment eg car charging
- barney54 4y ago
  Not necessarily. Yes, they are cheap, but most current solar installations use single axis trackers. They are simple and increase yield.
recuter 4y ago
I raise you a wax motor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiADday0mDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiADday0mDA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor tl;dr - sun rises, temperature rises, wax material expands, motor actuates, solar panel tracks the sky as if it was a sun flower. Maybe the gloop is sentient or something.
- freemint 4y ago
  Variation in temperature between days (summer vs winter) is larger then variation between morning and afternoon.
  - recuter 4y ago
    And? I was going to type out a reply but got me curios whether this is a solved thing already. It is a thing already: http://www.sulasindustries.com/technology/ http://www.sulasindustries.com/technology/
1970-01-01 4y ago
Reminds me of "the Russians used a pencil"
- ancarda 4y ago
  Right sentiment (look for a simple solution), but sadly that story isn't true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_Russian_space_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and...
pilingual 4y ago
SunSaluter: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ueWgctIEX1s https://youtube.com/watch?v=ueWgctIEX1s https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-in-science-the-low_b_871191 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-in-science-the-low_b_87...
ww520 4y ago
This sun tracker is very simple and works well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1E7o7J3qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1E7o7J3qc
blenderdt 4y ago
But this only works in direct sunlight. And the next day your panels are staring in the wrong direction.
- MaurizioPz 4y ago
  the solution it's explained in the video

YossarianFrPrez 4y ago

Great, simple solution, especially if the axes of motion are un-restricted.

Mandatum 4y ago

Simple Solution is often the best. Although I wonder what this adds to overall build costs?

ncmncm 4y ago

Nowadays panels are cheap enough that if you want more power than you get with them fixed in place, you just add more panels.

psyguy 4y ago
Are panels cheaper than the servo motor & Arduino used in this tool? Not to mention that at mass produced scales chip costs are usually 1/5 the price of an Arduino. What if every panel used these tools, we could increase the amount of power we gather from solar.
- bushbaba 4y ago
  Yes. A 400w watt panel is 250$. When you account for labor and cost of all. The parts for a moving panel that can withstand high wind speeds…Placing more fixed panels is cheaper.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > A 400w watt panel is 250$. Wait, panels are that cheap? Could you point me to a good place to buy them?
    - kurthr 4y ago
      https://watts247.com/product-category/solar-panels/new/pallet-new/ https://watts247.com/product-category/solar-panels/new/palle... I don't know what, where, or how many you want, but these are by the pallet (~30ea) and about $6500. You can get much cheaper with used ones. You get conservatively ~3hr of effective peak power per day (so a 400W panel will give you 1200Wh). You also need a DC converter for these to charge a battery or go to AC. Of course you'll want to mount them at the correct angle with a good view of the sun.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      You generally have to buy them by the pallet-load, FOB ("free on board") at the source, which means you arrange shipping. Home Depot marks up 4x for local purchase. But used panels, at 80% rated output, are even cheaper, as low as $150. A few of those will fail, so you keep spares. They are often repairable in a few minutes if you are not afraid of a soldering iron, e.g. replace a diode or MOSFET. Any roofer will put in mounting brackets, and almost any electrician is happy to put in the panel.
      - walrus01 4y ago
        Decent vendors such as sunelec.con will easily quote you a price for a one pallet load LTL freight shipment of a pallet of, say, 22 panels. Not like you have to arrange your own freight and often they get a better price because of they great monthly spend with the major us48 state LTL freight carriers. Be sure to specify if you need liftgate service at the destination or not, because that will affect cost, otherwise by default a pallet by LTL freight will need a loading dock to receive.
    - hedora 4y ago
      $3 per watt, installed on your roof is typical these days: https://www.remodelingcosts.org/solar-panel-costs-increase-seia-march-2022-report/ https://www.remodelingcosts.org/solar-panel-costs-increase-s... That includes labor, mounting hardware, inverters and grid tie in. It also assumes high efficiency panels. Watch out before buying older technology (lower efficiency) panels. Some have significant efficiency losses per degree Celsius increase in temperature.
  - fy20 4y ago
    In Europe they are even cheaper as we don't have high tariffs on Chinese panels. I can buy a 350W panel for €150 including taxes, or €100 if I go to the equivalent of Craigslist and don't care about warranties.
- rockostrich 4y ago
  Maybe not bulk cost upfront, but surely the maintenance cost tips towards fixed place panels.
- hedora 4y ago
  Our solar panels are rated to 115mph winds. What are these servo mounts rated to? Also, installation of the panels currently costs more than panels. They don't say (or I didn't find) how efficient the optimal fixed mount is, but the agent starts at 80%, so assume some fixed position is 80% of optimal. They increase that to 96%, so they reduce the number of solar panels by about 13%. If the installation labor cost increases more than ~26% because of the servo mount, then the servo mount hardware and frame would need to be cheaper than fixed mounts for it to break even. Similarly, the amount of aluminum being consumed by solar panel installions is non-trivial, and the movable frame is likely to increase that. However, this is still a cool hobby project with a nice writeup.
  - ehnto 4y ago
    > Also, installation of the panels currently costs more than panels. That's partly the racquet people set up to snag government grant dollars, but still true.
kumarvvr 4y ago
Exactly. Any mechanism that moves the panel to follow the sun, must be sturdy enough to also withstand high winds, which is inevitably costlier than proof of concept ideas. Better to add more panels. A better way to ensure more power output is to have a set of panels with a small battery back to automate cooling of the panels and cleaning of the panels.
- f0e4c2f7 4y ago
  Interesting that the limiting factor is energy and wind. I wonder if you could devise a locking mechanism or something purely mechanical to solve it. Something closer to gears in a watch.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    That costs even more.
- patrickk 4y ago
  Another concept involving the cooling of solar panels and how to use the heat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJixtZdkU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJixtZdkU0
  - rb666 4y ago
    Easy method to improve cooling of your panels is installing a sedum roof underneath. Plus such a roof has many more advantages.
duckmysick 4y ago
Something to consider is when adding more panels brings your total installation power over the limit of your net metering agreement.
- shermozle 4y ago
  The intverter should be able to be configured with export limits. In a lot of jurisdictions that's mandatory anyway. Still better to over-specify so that in Winter you get the full amount while in Summer you just throw some away. Or take up a power-intensive hobby like Bitcoin mining in Summer.
  - duckmysick 4y ago
    As I understand, the limits regulate the total capacity of the installation not the actual amount of electricity produced.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      That would be very peculiar. Unusual, anyway. Do you know anyplace that does it? Whose business is it what your total collection area is?
      - duckmysick 4y ago
        Oregon limits residential customers to 25 kW (nameplate capacity). https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_860-039-0010 https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_860-039-0010 From the cursory look it seems like most states have limits like those. A lot of them are generous enough so you don't have to worry about it. But there are some states where covering an entire roof of a moderately sized building would put your over the limit. https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/net-metering-policy-overview-and-state-legislative-updates.aspx#statenet https://www.ncsl.org/research/energy/net-metering-policy-ove...
    - tonylucas 4y ago
      Nope, at least for ours it limits on export produced (on a technical basis, not a planning permission one). It will deliberately downgrade the energy produced to ensure it doesn’t exceed export limits. You get used to optimising for sunshine for when you run power heavy equipment eg car charging
barney54 4y ago
Not necessarily. Yes, they are cheap, but most current solar installations use single axis trackers. They are simple and increase yield.

recuter 4y ago

I raise you a wax motor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiADday0mDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiADday0mDA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor tl;dr - sun rises, temperature rises, wax material expands, motor actuates, solar panel tracks the sky as if it was a sun flower. Maybe the gloop is sentient or something.

freemint 4y ago
Variation in temperature between days (summer vs winter) is larger then variation between morning and afternoon.
- recuter 4y ago
  And? I was going to type out a reply but got me curios whether this is a solved thing already. It is a thing already: http://www.sulasindustries.com/technology/ http://www.sulasindustries.com/technology/

1970-01-01 4y ago

Reminds me of "the Russians used a pencil"

ancarda 4y ago
Right sentiment (look for a simple solution), but sadly that story isn't true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and_Russian_space_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen#Uses_in_the_U.S._and...

pilingual 4y ago

SunSaluter: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ueWgctIEX1s https://youtube.com/watch?v=ueWgctIEX1s https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-in-science-the-low_b_871191 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women-in-science-the-low_b_87...

ww520 4y ago

This sun tracker is very simple and works well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1E7o7J3qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj1E7o7J3qc

blenderdt 4y ago

But this only works in direct sunlight. And the next day your panels are staring in the wrong direction.

MaurizioPz 4y ago
the solution it's explained in the video