3 ms·

What if the back of the plane is pets ok and the front of the plane is for people who don't want to be near them? Where I live people bring the dogs into the g

What if the back of the plane is pets ok and the front of the plane is for people who don't want to be near them? Where I live people bring the dogs into the grocery store (carrying them, putting them in the cart, or just walking on a leash.... and no, they aren't all service dogs) and I've never seen a problem. Personally I think you should be able to get a special collar or jacket for them that says they have passed a test that they are well enough trained for such things etc.

sophacles 4y ago
> Personally I think you should be able to get a special collar or jacket for them that says they have passed a test that they are well enough trained for such things etc. I agree with your overall point - but I doubt this would be effective. Supposedly we already have such a system for service animals, but there's been enough shenanigans around that to make me cautious of this specific plan.
- robbrown451 4y ago
  Well it's better than nothing. But as I said, where I live (San Francisco) people bring dogs in stores all the time, and I never see problems. Presumably most of them realize that if their pet is going to poop on the floor or bark or snap at people, they just don't bring them in. What are the shenanigans you are aware of with service dogs? Badly behaved dogs, or just people that lie about why they need a dog? My suggested plan would make such lying unnecessary since all you need to do is prove the dog can pass a behavior test, it has nothing to do with whether you supposedly need the emotional support animal. (and of course, this doesn't give anyone the right to bring the dog in a store or in a plane or whatever, unless the business wants to allow it)
  - kelnos 4y ago
    > What are the shenanigans you are aware of with service dogs? Badly behaved dogs, or just people that lie about why they need a dog? The problem with "service" dogs is that you can buy a vest on Amazon for $25[0] without that dog having been trained to do anything in particular. Many people (in San Francisco especially; I'm surprised you haven't seen this) just put these on their dog and claim that they can bring the dog into restaurants (where non-service animals are specifically banned by health code). The whole "emotional support animal" thing has been abused like crazy by people who just feel entitled to bring their pet anywhere they want, regardless of the law, or even just the policy of a particular establishment. Generally it's fairly legally perilous for a business owner to attempt to ascertain if the animal is really a service animal that's been properly trained to do tasks for their human, so they often feel stuck and unable to turn them away. I like (most) dogs just fine, but I don't want to be seated indoors in a restaurant one table over from one, even if they're well-behaved. I'm fairly allergic to some breeds, and I don't want to spend my meal with itchy eyes and a stuffy nose. And I certainly don't want random pets walking around grocery stores, sniffing the produce and shedding hair on everything. Actual service animals are trained to handle those situations properly and not be a nuisance, but your random pet or "emotional support animal" is not. [0] https://smile.amazon.com/Service-Vest-Hook-Straps-Handle/dp/B00NSIYLLK https://smile.amazon.com/Service-Vest-Hook-Straps-Handle/dp/... for example
    - robbrown451 4y ago
      Oh I've seen people with service dog vests, but don't have any knowledge of whether they are "real". But see, I don't care if the person really needs a service dog. Some are for "emotional support", and while I think that is a bit silly, whatever. What I'm concerned about is badly behaved dogs. I haven't seen that inside stores or restaurants. I really don't care about whether they are sniffing produce or whatever (not they they seem to do that), if I'm going to get sick from something in a store, most likely it is from a human, since humans tend to host human-infecting germs. Have you actually ever gotten allergies from a pet in a restaurant? I have cat allergies, but they tend to kick in when I am in someone's home where a cat lives.
8note 4y ago
Does that fix my allergies to them? Or am I allowed to cover to dog owner in snot in exchange?
- robbrown451 4y ago
  I think if pets are only in one part of the plane it should not be a problem. Planes filter the air more than just about any other environment. I have pretty severe cat allergies and don't think it would be a problem for me unless it is in the same row.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    I've been on a plane with a dog three or four rows behind me, and was stuffy and sneezing for most of the flight. And my allergies aren't even that severe. Sure, maybe it would have been fine had the dog been 10 rows back, but maybe not, and maybe not for someone with more severe allergies. Then again, sometimes we just have to suck it up and deal with it, and hope the airline staff can do what they can to separate the animals from the people with allergies as much as possible. While there are certainly some people who bizarrely can't go anywhere without their pet (and I personally don't care if we don't make accommodations for them), but people do legitimately need to travel with their pet sometimes, and we need safe ways to do that. We have two cats, and if we were to move to somewhere far enough away that driving were infeasible, I would want to travel with them in-cabin.

sophacles 4y ago

> Personally I think you should be able to get a special collar or jacket for them that says they have passed a test that they are well enough trained for such things etc. I agree with your overall point - but I doubt this would be effective. Supposedly we already have such a system for service animals, but there's been enough shenanigans around that to make me cautious of this specific plan.

robbrown451 4y ago
Well it's better than nothing. But as I said, where I live (San Francisco) people bring dogs in stores all the time, and I never see problems. Presumably most of them realize that if their pet is going to poop on the floor or bark or snap at people, they just don't bring them in. What are the shenanigans you are aware of with service dogs? Badly behaved dogs, or just people that lie about why they need a dog? My suggested plan would make such lying unnecessary since all you need to do is prove the dog can pass a behavior test, it has nothing to do with whether you supposedly need the emotional support animal. (and of course, this doesn't give anyone the right to bring the dog in a store or in a plane or whatever, unless the business wants to allow it)
- kelnos 4y ago
  > What are the shenanigans you are aware of with service dogs? Badly behaved dogs, or just people that lie about why they need a dog? The problem with "service" dogs is that you can buy a vest on Amazon for $25[0] without that dog having been trained to do anything in particular. Many people (in San Francisco especially; I'm surprised you haven't seen this) just put these on their dog and claim that they can bring the dog into restaurants (where non-service animals are specifically banned by health code). The whole "emotional support animal" thing has been abused like crazy by people who just feel entitled to bring their pet anywhere they want, regardless of the law, or even just the policy of a particular establishment. Generally it's fairly legally perilous for a business owner to attempt to ascertain if the animal is really a service animal that's been properly trained to do tasks for their human, so they often feel stuck and unable to turn them away. I like (most) dogs just fine, but I don't want to be seated indoors in a restaurant one table over from one, even if they're well-behaved. I'm fairly allergic to some breeds, and I don't want to spend my meal with itchy eyes and a stuffy nose. And I certainly don't want random pets walking around grocery stores, sniffing the produce and shedding hair on everything. Actual service animals are trained to handle those situations properly and not be a nuisance, but your random pet or "emotional support animal" is not. [0] https://smile.amazon.com/Service-Vest-Hook-Straps-Handle/dp/B00NSIYLLK https://smile.amazon.com/Service-Vest-Hook-Straps-Handle/dp/... for example
  - robbrown451 4y ago
    Oh I've seen people with service dog vests, but don't have any knowledge of whether they are "real". But see, I don't care if the person really needs a service dog. Some are for "emotional support", and while I think that is a bit silly, whatever. What I'm concerned about is badly behaved dogs. I haven't seen that inside stores or restaurants. I really don't care about whether they are sniffing produce or whatever (not they they seem to do that), if I'm going to get sick from something in a store, most likely it is from a human, since humans tend to host human-infecting germs. Have you actually ever gotten allergies from a pet in a restaurant? I have cat allergies, but they tend to kick in when I am in someone's home where a cat lives.

8note 4y ago

Does that fix my allergies to them? Or am I allowed to cover to dog owner in snot in exchange?

robbrown451 4y ago
I think if pets are only in one part of the plane it should not be a problem. Planes filter the air more than just about any other environment. I have pretty severe cat allergies and don't think it would be a problem for me unless it is in the same row.
- kelnos 4y ago
  I've been on a plane with a dog three or four rows behind me, and was stuffy and sneezing for most of the flight. And my allergies aren't even that severe. Sure, maybe it would have been fine had the dog been 10 rows back, but maybe not, and maybe not for someone with more severe allergies. Then again, sometimes we just have to suck it up and deal with it, and hope the airline staff can do what they can to separate the animals from the people with allergies as much as possible. While there are certainly some people who bizarrely can't go anywhere without their pet (and I personally don't care if we don't make accommodations for them), but people do legitimately need to travel with their pet sometimes, and we need safe ways to do that. We have two cats, and if we were to move to somewhere far enough away that driving were infeasible, I would want to travel with them in-cabin.