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>That is interstate commerce, and therefore the jurisdiction of the originating state, California, can apply. States are divested of the power to regulate inte
by notch656a 5y ago
>That is interstate commerce, and therefore the jurisdiction of the originating state, California, can apply.
States are divested of the power to regulate interstate commerce. This is squarely jurisdiction of federal government, not the states.
>Your comment confirmed that the value originated in one place
The bits originated in California. The value originated in Illinois. It was valueless to the company while locked in California. Perhaps it was valuable to someone else who never made the transaction in California, but not to the company in Illinois who actually paid for it.
>The company in Illinois compensated the employee for their time to generate intellectual property,
If the employer were simply paying for time then why not hire a prisoner or a nice retired old lady to sit in a chair for 8 hours a day? We both know they aren't paying for time, they're paying for the useful bits they have in Illinois. They want the IP, not to burn people's time.
>So then the work clearly has value prior to being packaged and sold to the end customer.
It has value to the customer in Illinois, not in California. It is valueless to the customer locked up in California. It has value perhaps to the employee in California, but not the employer (customer).
>You seem to have conflated the concept of an employee with that of a business or an independent contractor, which are not the same thing, and are not governed by the same laws
I haven't conflated, I'm showing the courts contradict themselves. They say it's fair game to charge sales tax even with no physical presence, with no tax paid to the other state with physical presence, but then want the exact opposite if you buy IP from an 'employee' instead of bullets from a company. It makes no sense. They want to have their cake and eat it too. One may argue such wishy-washy behavior is 'arbitrary and capricious' which could cast doubt on whether their rulings are even enforceable.
>No, the business is not "purchasing IP within their state lines", the business is employing a person who resides within another state, and therefore the business must abide by the employment laws of the employee's state, as well as the business state of origin. An example of buying IP would be purchasing a legal contract template, or a software license. In the examples I provided sales tax for the state where the purchase originated would apply.
We simply disagree here. I see that they are purchasing IP within their state lines, you see something completely different.
>I'm unsure if you are trolling or just very confused
I could say the same for the state of California. It seems they are trolling to go after someone in Illinois for buying bits in Illinois.
Once it was in Illinois it had value, before that it didn't have value to the buyer. Again it was useless to the Illinois company while locked up in California.
California wants to regulate interstate commerce, which of course is flatly unconstitutional. California's tax board is a clown circus of petty tyrants who have tortured and subjugated their victims for far too long.
- Dangeranger 5y ago> States are divested of the power to regulate interstate commerce. This is squarely jurisdiction of federal government, not the states. It's not as simple as that. States can indeed apply their laws to interstate commerce in a myriad of ways, but not to the degree that the U.S. federal government can. States for example can force e-commerce companies to apply sales tax to purchases made by customers based in the given state, even though the business is based in another state. By your logic, the state should only be able to enforce their laws on the resident customer, but that's not true, they can apply their law to the online retailer who doesn't have a presence in the state and force them to collect the taxes on the state's behalf and remit the taxes to the state. [0] As a second example, a state's minimum wage laws apply to any person who resides within the state, even if that person works remotely for a company based solely in another state. If you have a company in Illinois, your minimum wage is $12.00 per hour. If you employ a person who resides in California for remote work, you still must pay them the California minimum wage of $14.00 per hour. You must also adhere to other labor laws for the employee who resides in California for overtime, maximum hours worked per day, and others. [1] > We simply disagree here. I see that they are purchasing IP within their state lines, you see something completely different. We do disagree, but your opinion also disagrees with one-hundred years of U.S. employment case law, and so I would argue is factually incorrect. [0] https://www.taxjar.com/sales-tax/nexus https://www.taxjar.com/sales-tax/nexus [1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/state#ca https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/state#ca
- notch656a 5y ago>By your logic, the state should only be able to enforce their laws on the resident customer, but that's not true, they can apply their law to the online retailer who doesn't have a presence in the state and force them to collect the taxes on the state's behalf and remit the taxes to the state. [0] Which of course is insane and shows the dire state of constitutional crisis in our nation. >minimum wage laws Another horrible kick in the teeth to the poor -- outlawing work for the lowest on the rung of the economic latter. Minimum wage laws are an argument against this legislative tyranny, not for it. >We do disagree, but your opinion also disagrees with one-hundred years of U.S. employment case law, and so I would argue is factually incorrect. I count that as a pro, not a con. The last 100 years of legislation in the US is the biggest swath of which ought to be eliminated, IMO. Starting with the 16th amendment.