10 ms·

Glad I saw this comment before checking out my cart full of guitars, drums, pianos, and a harmonica. Joking aside, would it be a stretch to say that learning t

by alimov 4y ago

Glad I saw this comment before checking out my cart full of guitars, drums, pianos, and a harmonica. Joking aside, would it be a stretch to say that learning to play an instrument well also grows confidence and develops a level of perseverance? Being bad at playing an instrument can be pretty discouraging, until one day you start to get the hang of it, giving more confidence to continue practicing and learning. Maybe that perseverance* bleeds over into other areas.

gfody 4y ago
learning anything exercises your learning abilities and they get stronger. if we ever truly understand "learning ability" it's bound to include things like confidence and perseverance among other things. I feel like this basic intuition is behind every "links to cognitive abilities" study I've ever seen, even the recent one about daily drinkers (who probably just don't exercise their minds as much)
- alimov 4y ago
  > I feel like this basic intuition is behind every "links to cognitive abilities" study I've ever seen I’ve had this impression as well
ushakov 4y ago
most people who start learning an instrument quit not quitting alone will eventually make you better than most who tried and quit speaking of personal experience
- jacquesm 4y ago
  This is an excellent point. Perseverance is the key to most achievements unless you are one of those very lucky people that are naturally gifted and able to do something with only a very small fraction of the practice of the 'regulars'. Even then that isn't a guarantee because you still need motivation.
  - alimov 4y ago
    Yeah, the perseverance “muscle” must be trained
  - antihipocrat 4y ago
    Are there any real examples of these naturally gifted people? For example, someone who picked up an instrument and could play at a professional level within days without ever having touched an instrument before? We hear stories of kid prodigies, but are we forgetting that kids have a lot of free time to practice if they focus their efforts?
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Amos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Amos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinu_Lipatti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinu_Lipatti And many, many others besides. The musical child prodigy is a well documented phenomenon and even though 'a lot of free time to practice' is a common theme lots of people with a lot of free time to practice will never even get close to that level. Compare to math prodigies, and other ways in which some people appear to stand out from the crowd. Of course then you can drag in all kinds of circumstantial evidence that amount to a 'no true prodigy' version of the one about that dude from Scotland but I think the evidence is solid enough to show that there is something there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_music_prodigies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_music_prodigies FWIW I also know plenty of the opposite: people that have worked really hard their whole life long to master an instrument and who will never be at the level of one of these gifted children. They play beautifully and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them but they are not under any illusion that it came hard to them when it seems to come so incredibly easy to some others. Outliers do happen.
bityard 4y ago
If you've ever fell in love with a song, or an artist, or totally jammed out to some track in a manner that would be embarrassing had you been observed, or if you constantly walk around with a tune in your head, then yes, learning an instrument is a great idea. My guess is that anyone who appreciates music on a deep level is capable of playing it, if not artfully then at least competently. It's also a matter of finding the right instrument for you, which could turn out to be a surprise. I suspect I'm older than they typical HN demographic, but I made several attempts to learn piano over the years and was never able to stick with it. I also tried bass guitar and that was fun (and pretty easy!) but you only get so far without playing in a band which I never had the time for. Then I picked up my dad's accordion (of all things) and got to wondering what it would be like to learn to play a simple song on it. That was two years ago and since then I haven't missed a single day of practice, learning, or playing for fun. Which surprises the hell out of me, because I'm the kind of person who bounces from hobby to hobby and project to project and rarely finishes anything. It's frankly amazing to have _something_ I can say I have worked on (and towards) every day for a long time. THAT inspires confidence and some sense of self-worth. (And I generally need all of that I can get!) Sometimes it's frustrating to get "stuck" on a difficult piece or hand movement that's new to me, but I always have to remind myself that I've been stuck before and that I'll eventually get it right with enough repetition, even if it takes weeks. The joy felt when I finally _do_ get it right is so intense that it probably ranks up there with some of the best drugs, minus the considerable negative consequences.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Hah! Great you found your 'match'. Trying my hand at the piano for the third time in my life and having a ton of fun with it but I know I still suck and probably will for a long time to come. That moment you talk about hasn't arrived yet, it still requires a lot of thinking rather than that it is playing. I remember clearly the changeover moment on the sax when I could simply play what I wanted rather than to have to study each song from the beginning to find the right notes. And I can't wait to reach that level on the piano but piano is a lot harder than sax on account of the polyphony and I suspect at some level playing a monophonic instrument for a long time doesn't really help when you want to play piano, all I hear in my head is the 'lead'.

by alimov 4y ago

gfody 4y ago

learning anything exercises your learning abilities and they get stronger. if we ever truly understand "learning ability" it's bound to include things like confidence and perseverance among other things. I feel like this basic intuition is behind every "links to cognitive abilities" study I've ever seen, even the recent one about daily drinkers (who probably just don't exercise their minds as much)

alimov 4y ago
> I feel like this basic intuition is behind every "links to cognitive abilities" study I've ever seen I’ve had this impression as well

ushakov 4y ago

most people who start learning an instrument quit not quitting alone will eventually make you better than most who tried and quit speaking of personal experience

jacquesm 4y ago
This is an excellent point. Perseverance is the key to most achievements unless you are one of those very lucky people that are naturally gifted and able to do something with only a very small fraction of the practice of the 'regulars'. Even then that isn't a guarantee because you still need motivation.
- alimov 4y ago
  Yeah, the perseverance “muscle” must be trained
- antihipocrat 4y ago
  Are there any real examples of these naturally gifted people? For example, someone who picked up an instrument and could play at a professional level within days without ever having touched an instrument before? We hear stories of kid prodigies, but are we forgetting that kids have a lot of free time to practice if they focus their efforts?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Amos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tori_Amos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinu_Lipatti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinu_Lipatti And many, many others besides. The musical child prodigy is a well documented phenomenon and even though 'a lot of free time to practice' is a common theme lots of people with a lot of free time to practice will never even get close to that level. Compare to math prodigies, and other ways in which some people appear to stand out from the crowd. Of course then you can drag in all kinds of circumstantial evidence that amount to a 'no true prodigy' version of the one about that dude from Scotland but I think the evidence is solid enough to show that there is something there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_music_prodigies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_music_prodigies FWIW I also know plenty of the opposite: people that have worked really hard their whole life long to master an instrument and who will never be at the level of one of these gifted children. They play beautifully and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them but they are not under any illusion that it came hard to them when it seems to come so incredibly easy to some others. Outliers do happen.

bityard 4y ago

If you've ever fell in love with a song, or an artist, or totally jammed out to some track in a manner that would be embarrassing had you been observed, or if you constantly walk around with a tune in your head, then yes, learning an instrument is a great idea. My guess is that anyone who appreciates music on a deep level is capable of playing it, if not artfully then at least competently. It's also a matter of finding the right instrument for you, which could turn out to be a surprise. I suspect I'm older than they typical HN demographic, but I made several attempts to learn piano over the years and was never able to stick with it. I also tried bass guitar and that was fun (and pretty easy!) but you only get so far without playing in a band which I never had the time for. Then I picked up my dad's accordion (of all things) and got to wondering what it would be like to learn to play a simple song on it. That was two years ago and since then I haven't missed a single day of practice, learning, or playing for fun. Which surprises the hell out of me, because I'm the kind of person who bounces from hobby to hobby and project to project and rarely finishes anything. It's frankly amazing to have _something_ I can say I have worked on (and towards) every day for a long time. THAT inspires confidence and some sense of self-worth. (And I generally need all of that I can get!) Sometimes it's frustrating to get "stuck" on a difficult piece or hand movement that's new to me, but I always have to remind myself that I've been stuck before and that I'll eventually get it right with enough repetition, even if it takes weeks. The joy felt when I finally _do_ get it right is so intense that it probably ranks up there with some of the best drugs, minus the considerable negative consequences.

jacquesm 4y ago
Hah! Great you found your 'match'. Trying my hand at the piano for the third time in my life and having a ton of fun with it but I know I still suck and probably will for a long time to come. That moment you talk about hasn't arrived yet, it still requires a lot of thinking rather than that it is playing. I remember clearly the changeover moment on the sax when I could simply play what I wanted rather than to have to study each song from the beginning to find the right notes. And I can't wait to reach that level on the piano but piano is a lot harder than sax on account of the polyphony and I suspect at some level playing a monophonic instrument for a long time doesn't really help when you want to play piano, all I hear in my head is the 'lead'.