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Honestly the main reason seems to be that it looks less intimidating. Open vi and no help is offered in terms of commands, it's just an empty screen. Same for E

Honestly the main reason seems to be that it looks less intimidating. Open vi and no help is offered in terms of commands, it's just an empty screen. Same for Emacs i think. Nano looks like something built for humans.

soraminazuki 5y ago
This is the greeting text that is displayed when you launch Vim [1]: VIM - Vi IMproved version 8.2.4133 by Bram Moolenaar et al. Vim is open source and freely distributable Help poor children in Uganda! type :help iccf<Enter> for information type :q<Enter> to exit type :help<Enter> or <F1> for on-line help type :help version8<Enter> for version info Running in Vi compatible mode type :set nocp<Enter> for Vim defaults type :help cp-default<Enter> for info on this "No help offered" or "just an empty screen" is not how I would describe the above text. [1]: https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/a96edb736d4274fc4aea460800780e06e1510812/src/version.c#L10910-L10929 https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/a96edb736d4274fc4aea46080078...
- vimacs2 5y ago
  OP was specifically referencing vi, not vim
- onei 5y ago
  Most of the time I've seen people get stuck in vim is when they use "git commit" which opens up whatever you have $EDITOR set to. The default value in most distros I've used in vim/vi and I can't recall seeing usage help in that scenario.
  - soraminazuki 5y ago
    True, but at least it points you to the :help command at the beginning of its man page and pressing ctrl-c tells you how you can quit.
  - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
    What distros do you use? One of my ongoing irritations with Ubuntu is that the default editor is not VIM.
    - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      Just change it to what you want.
      - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
        I do... every time :)
    - onei 5y ago
      Y'know, now that you mention it, I don't recall changing the default editor in Ubuntu. I think I first noticed vi or vim as the default editor in Fedora around 6 years ago, and maybe also in git bash on Windows. Beyond that, my memory is hazy, but I think vi or vim is the default in Debian and RHEL/CentOS, but I wouldn't put money on it.
  - dEnigma 5y ago
    I voiced my strong support when they changed the standard git editor on my distro from vim to nano. While I'm still playing with the thought of really getting into vim and/or emacs at some point, nano is just a much simpler, more familiar type of editor. Seems like a lot of other people also felt that way. Depending on your user base it might make sense to stick to vim though, in case you'd disappoint your more technical/unixy users.
  - adamomada 5y ago
    I’ve always had the idea that EDITOR should be on the same level as the login shell on nix systems. Choose your shell and your editor when creating your account, or don’t complain about the defaults
    - Anthony-G 5y ago
      I agree but I’ve found that a lot of users don’t know they can set EDITOR in their shell profile – or that the `chsh` command exists to let them change their login shell.
      - adamomada 5y ago
        Yeah the “create your account” part of the install should expose a few more settings such as the above, or perhaps a more generic “user account settings” pane in the major DEs to show the most common environment configurations for user accounts
      - onei 5y ago
        I am one of those that didn't know chsh was a thing - thanks for the tip!
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    As a Vim user I agree. People who don't know about this environment variable might also not be very familiar with Vim. It helps nobody to surprise people like that. Also I like to use Vim's terminal buffer, and it turns out accidentally starting Vim inside Vim rarely leads to satisfying results.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- marssaxman 5y ago
  I have ended up in vim by accident on quite a number of occasions over the last few decades, but I have never seen the quoted text. Perhaps it is something you only see if you are trying to use vim on purpose?
bc4m 5y ago
The Emacs welcome screen links to a tutorial, a guided tour, and manual, all of which are inside Emacs. I would say its help functionality is potentially its greatest strength.
- newswasboring 5y ago
  Right, but when nano first opened for me, I didn't need a help or manual. That's what I mean by it feeling like it was made for humans.

soraminazuki 5y ago

This is the greeting text that is displayed when you launch Vim [1]: VIM - Vi IMproved version 8.2.4133 by Bram Moolenaar et al. Vim is open source and freely distributable Help poor children in Uganda! type :help iccf<Enter> for information type :q<Enter> to exit type :help<Enter> or <F1> for on-line help type :help version8<Enter> for version info Running in Vi compatible mode type :set nocp<Enter> for Vim defaults type :help cp-default<Enter> for info on this "No help offered" or "just an empty screen" is not how I would describe the above text. [1]: https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/a96edb736d4274fc4aea460800780e06e1510812/src/version.c#L10910-L10929 https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/a96edb736d4274fc4aea46080078...

vimacs2 5y ago
OP was specifically referencing vi, not vim
onei 5y ago
Most of the time I've seen people get stuck in vim is when they use "git commit" which opens up whatever you have $EDITOR set to. The default value in most distros I've used in vim/vi and I can't recall seeing usage help in that scenario.
- soraminazuki 5y ago
  True, but at least it points you to the :help command at the beginning of its man page and pressing ctrl-c tells you how you can quit.
- AlchemistCamp 5y ago
  What distros do you use? One of my ongoing irritations with Ubuntu is that the default editor is not VIM.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    Just change it to what you want.
    - AlchemistCamp 5y ago
      I do... every time :)
  - onei 5y ago
    Y'know, now that you mention it, I don't recall changing the default editor in Ubuntu. I think I first noticed vi or vim as the default editor in Fedora around 6 years ago, and maybe also in git bash on Windows. Beyond that, my memory is hazy, but I think vi or vim is the default in Debian and RHEL/CentOS, but I wouldn't put money on it.
- dEnigma 5y ago
  I voiced my strong support when they changed the standard git editor on my distro from vim to nano. While I'm still playing with the thought of really getting into vim and/or emacs at some point, nano is just a much simpler, more familiar type of editor. Seems like a lot of other people also felt that way. Depending on your user base it might make sense to stick to vim though, in case you'd disappoint your more technical/unixy users.
- adamomada 5y ago
  I’ve always had the idea that EDITOR should be on the same level as the login shell on nix systems. Choose your shell and your editor when creating your account, or don’t complain about the defaults
  - Anthony-G 5y ago
    I agree but I’ve found that a lot of users don’t know they can set EDITOR in their shell profile – or that the `chsh` command exists to let them change their login shell.
    - adamomada 5y ago
      Yeah the “create your account” part of the install should expose a few more settings such as the above, or perhaps a more generic “user account settings” pane in the major DEs to show the most common environment configurations for user accounts
    - onei 5y ago
      I am one of those that didn't know chsh was a thing - thanks for the tip!
- alpaca128 5y ago
  As a Vim user I agree. People who don't know about this environment variable might also not be very familiar with Vim. It helps nobody to surprise people like that. Also I like to use Vim's terminal buffer, and it turns out accidentally starting Vim inside Vim rarely leads to satisfying results.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
marssaxman 5y ago
I have ended up in vim by accident on quite a number of occasions over the last few decades, but I have never seen the quoted text. Perhaps it is something you only see if you are trying to use vim on purpose?

bc4m 5y ago

The Emacs welcome screen links to a tutorial, a guided tour, and manual, all of which are inside Emacs. I would say its help functionality is potentially its greatest strength.

newswasboring 5y ago
Right, but when nano first opened for me, I didn't need a help or manual. That's what I mean by it feeling like it was made for humans.