5 ms·

Is this really unique to California? He had 100% of his employees in California. (100% of 1, but still.) I'm having a hard time imagining that no other state in

by _moof 4y ago

Is this really unique to California? He had 100% of his employees in California. (100% of 1, but still.) I'm having a hard time imagining that no other state in America would consider that "doing business in the state."

whimsicalism 4y ago
It's an absurd article, capitalizing on predominant anti-California sentiment that has become popular to talk about in the last ~5 years or so.
- kitten_mittens_ 4y ago
  I'm from the mountain west, and I'd say anti-California sentiment has been around my whole life (born right after the Wall fell). Even from my Appalachian migrant parents.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    In the national media, it has clearly accelerated in the last few years. For most East Coast rural areas, NY & DC have been the traditional bogeymen, not california. The mountain west is much more within Cali's sphere of influence so-to-speak.
  - _jal 4y ago
    I find this map surprisingly accurate. https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/map11.jpg https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/map11.jp...
    - adamrezich 4y ago
      someone tell North Dakota that we in SD don't actually hate them, it's just jokes, we hate California just as much as everyone else
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      Not really, many of these are more "joking" dislikes than actual strong disdain/dislike that California, New York, etc. engender.
- vmception 4y ago
  My reality is that nobody smart and wealthy that bothers to read or hire a CPA and lawyer actually is encumbered by California's "high taxes and onerous compliance". So yeah, sure an obvious counter example is of W-2 employees at a FAANG are smart and wealthy, but many of them don't bother to look and have few ways of lowering their taxes, but people playing around with capital have plenty of ways. This leaves a poorer class of people (in California and all across the country) that make too little to actually be encumbered by California taxes and also are not doing anything to trigger compliance measures on themselves while merely imagining its high taxes, and a richer class of people that can route around it like always and enjoy everything attractive about California.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    ? I agree that the second point you made refutes the first point you made. I make a lot of money, pay a lot in taxes, and do not have "obvious ways of routing around it" outside of a mega-backdoor roth.
    - vmception 4y ago
      they have to be smart && wealthy && bother to do things to nullify taxes, my second point made an example of smart && wealthy && !bothering to do thing to nullify taxes
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        There are no ez ways for W2 FAANG employees to "route around taxes."
        vmception 4y ago
        yeah thats what I said. glad we agree.
  - rmk 4y ago
    CA FTB is hard to dodge even for capital gains. Basically, if you have ever lived in California for anything other than a "temporary or transitory purpose", you are at least a part-time resident, likely a resident. Ergo, you owe CA's silly taxes, including on Capital Gains, and CA's own version of AMT (and no, CA does not recognize many taxation agreements that are federally recognized!). Basically, if the FTB decides to throw the book at you, you are toast. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2020/2020-1031-publication.pdf https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2020/2020-1031-publication.pdf
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anonuser123456 4y ago
  It’s not that absurd. CA regulatory infrastructure is setup for established, large firms. It’s obvious that small businesses don’t have the overhead to deal with EDD and FTB. As an example, I spent 10x more time dealing with the state for my nanny than I did having to manage her. The state needs small business rules with simple forms, push button compliance and exemptions for interstate commerce. The alternative is that most small firms live in the informal sector or do things wrong, not b/c they are bad actors but b/c compliance is hard.
  - otterley 4y ago
    There are companies that businesses can hire such as Gusto, JustWorks, etc. that handle all this red tape for you. Most well-advised startups do just that.
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      I'm sure if California had to pay the costs of hiring them, they'd magically find ways to simplify the code.
    - alexslobodnik 4y ago
      I wasn't aware that JustWorks can also handle state income taxes and franchise fees. Is this true?
    - jimt1234 4y ago
      Respectfully, I think that's the point. Why should a single-employee company have to outsource to deal with all the red tape?
      - otterley 4y ago
        For the same reasons they don't generate their own electricity or grow their own food: Because dealing with red tape isn't core to most businesses' missions.
        4y ago
- crystoloxy 4y ago
  Anti-California sentiment in the context of small businesses generally, the FTB generally, and particularly in the intersection of these two, is eminently reasonable. The system is garbage, it’s designed to extract as much revenue as possible from large orgs and it absolutely fucks independents.
dstroot 4y ago
He’s fortunate he didn’t hire a second employee in NY.
londons_explore 4y ago
I think better would be to have an exception for very small companies. Ie. If your revenue, assets, profits and expenses are all under $100k in the year, then you're allowed to just pay nothing and submit a 1 page form attesting to that fact.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  Unfortunately, this will never happen because they love going after the small businesses! Their total liability typically is less than the cost of a tax attorney so they get paid at way higher rates than normal.
chroma 4y ago
The main issue with California is that they try to collect on everyone, and they require a ton of paperwork even if you did make an honest mistake. People who move out of California are often hounded by the tax board. Even something as innocuous as having a storage unit in the state can cause the FTB to still consider you a resident. I haven’t lived in California for two years, yet I still have to pay them taxes on RSUs that are vesting this month. It’s insane.
bombcar 4y ago
Many states are not advanced enough to "detect" these issues, even if you W2 someone in their state from out-of-state. California has a pretty advanced FTB and catches and alerts on these.

by _moof 4y ago

whimsicalism 4y ago

It's an absurd article, capitalizing on predominant anti-California sentiment that has become popular to talk about in the last ~5 years or so.

kitten_mittens_ 4y ago
I'm from the mountain west, and I'd say anti-California sentiment has been around my whole life (born right after the Wall fell). Even from my Appalachian migrant parents.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  In the national media, it has clearly accelerated in the last few years. For most East Coast rural areas, NY & DC have been the traditional bogeymen, not california. The mountain west is much more within Cali's sphere of influence so-to-speak.
- _jal 4y ago
  I find this map surprisingly accurate. https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/map11.jpg https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/map11.jp...
  - adamrezich 4y ago
    someone tell North Dakota that we in SD don't actually hate them, it's just jokes, we hate California just as much as everyone else
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Not really, many of these are more "joking" dislikes than actual strong disdain/dislike that California, New York, etc. engender.
vmception 4y ago
My reality is that nobody smart and wealthy that bothers to read or hire a CPA and lawyer actually is encumbered by California's "high taxes and onerous compliance". So yeah, sure an obvious counter example is of W-2 employees at a FAANG are smart and wealthy, but many of them don't bother to look and have few ways of lowering their taxes, but people playing around with capital have plenty of ways. This leaves a poorer class of people (in California and all across the country) that make too little to actually be encumbered by California taxes and also are not doing anything to trigger compliance measures on themselves while merely imagining its high taxes, and a richer class of people that can route around it like always and enjoy everything attractive about California.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  ? I agree that the second point you made refutes the first point you made. I make a lot of money, pay a lot in taxes, and do not have "obvious ways of routing around it" outside of a mega-backdoor roth.
  - vmception 4y ago
    they have to be smart && wealthy && bother to do things to nullify taxes, my second point made an example of smart && wealthy && !bothering to do thing to nullify taxes
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      There are no ez ways for W2 FAANG employees to "route around taxes."
      - vmception 4y ago
        yeah thats what I said. glad we agree.
- rmk 4y ago
  CA FTB is hard to dodge even for capital gains. Basically, if you have ever lived in California for anything other than a "temporary or transitory purpose", you are at least a part-time resident, likely a resident. Ergo, you owe CA's silly taxes, including on Capital Gains, and CA's own version of AMT (and no, CA does not recognize many taxation agreements that are federally recognized!). Basically, if the FTB decides to throw the book at you, you are toast. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2020/2020-1031-publication.pdf https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2020/2020-1031-publication.pdf
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
anonuser123456 4y ago
It’s not that absurd. CA regulatory infrastructure is setup for established, large firms. It’s obvious that small businesses don’t have the overhead to deal with EDD and FTB. As an example, I spent 10x more time dealing with the state for my nanny than I did having to manage her. The state needs small business rules with simple forms, push button compliance and exemptions for interstate commerce. The alternative is that most small firms live in the informal sector or do things wrong, not b/c they are bad actors but b/c compliance is hard.
- otterley 4y ago
  There are companies that businesses can hire such as Gusto, JustWorks, etc. that handle all this red tape for you. Most well-advised startups do just that.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    I'm sure if California had to pay the costs of hiring them, they'd magically find ways to simplify the code.
  - alexslobodnik 4y ago
    I wasn't aware that JustWorks can also handle state income taxes and franchise fees. Is this true?
  - jimt1234 4y ago
    Respectfully, I think that's the point. Why should a single-employee company have to outsource to deal with all the red tape?
    - otterley 4y ago
      For the same reasons they don't generate their own electricity or grow their own food: Because dealing with red tape isn't core to most businesses' missions.
      - 4y ago
crystoloxy 4y ago
Anti-California sentiment in the context of small businesses generally, the FTB generally, and particularly in the intersection of these two, is eminently reasonable. The system is garbage, it’s designed to extract as much revenue as possible from large orgs and it absolutely fucks independents.

dstroot 4y ago

He’s fortunate he didn’t hire a second employee in NY.

londons_explore 4y ago

I think better would be to have an exception for very small companies. Ie. If your revenue, assets, profits and expenses are all under $100k in the year, then you're allowed to just pay nothing and submit a 1 page form attesting to that fact.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Enginerrrd 4y ago
Unfortunately, this will never happen because they love going after the small businesses! Their total liability typically is less than the cost of a tax attorney so they get paid at way higher rates than normal.

chroma 4y ago

The main issue with California is that they try to collect on everyone, and they require a ton of paperwork even if you did make an honest mistake. People who move out of California are often hounded by the tax board. Even something as innocuous as having a storage unit in the state can cause the FTB to still consider you a resident. I haven’t lived in California for two years, yet I still have to pay them taxes on RSUs that are vesting this month. It’s insane.

bombcar 4y ago

Many states are not advanced enough to "detect" these issues, even if you W2 someone in their state from out-of-state. California has a pretty advanced FTB and catches and alerts on these.