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"Keep doing 'It' but at our company" is not even slightly motivating. That's true, but what about "Keep doing 'It' but at our company for half the hours and do

"Keep doing 'It' but at our company" is not even slightly motivating. That's true, but what about "Keep doing 'It' but at our company for half the hours and double the salary"? Then you could take the extra time and money and work on your +1 and +2.

gonzo41 4y ago
I would guess that doing the +1 and +2 is mentally and emotionally easier and more satisfying if it's during a hellish 60 hour work week than in a relaxed 10 hours you freed up by getting more pay and a 30 hour week to do something easy. Like doing programming problems is fun for a bit, but doing work that actually does something, even if it's simpler in complexity is more satisfying. IMO of course. I think the recruiters could be pitching better if they went with, do 'it' here and think about what +1 could be and when you figure what that could be, pitch it to us. This of course assumes the organization sees IT as a value multiplier and not a cost center / plumbing job.
plorkyeran 4y ago
Past a certain point the +1 isn't something you can do on your own time. If you're looking to shift into more of a management role that's obviously hard to learn on a side project unless that side project is a full company with employees. Even pure technical skills can require certain scale; you aren't going to learn how to use k8s appropriately on the side because whatever you're doing on the side almost certainly shouldn't be using k8s at all. "Keep doing what you're doing but half the hours and double the salary" is something I would be tempted by, but it would be with the idea that I'm focusing on something other than developing my career.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  > "Keep doing what you're doing but half the hours and double the salary" is something I would be tempted by It would be tempting, even given the stake I just placed in the ground:[1] But 1. astronomically few companies will offer to double my comp at this late point in my career and 2. Nobody in tech offers part time work but with full benefits…I’d have to be a contractor and find clients and fund my own healthcare and retirement (yuck). It’s at best an theoretical exercise. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31193644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31193644
jmharvey 4y ago
Are there recruiters out there who pitch based on hours and money? Every pitch I get is all about the vision/team/prospects for success. And, yes, "prospects for success" in some ways means "money" but they're never so explicit about it.
bradlys 4y ago
This is just fantasy though. No one is offering $800k/yr at 20hr/week.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  I suspect there are people who earn this. I doubt any of them are the traditional definition of "employee" though. Consultant/Contractor might be the closest.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    Yes - there are people who win the lottery too. My point is that there isn’t enough for this to really be a thing we should put up as anything but fantasy. If you think you’re gonna get a recruiter who lands this in your inbox - buy lottery tickets instead.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      I see and agree. But it does help to inform people the right way to proceed if 800k in 20hrs a week is their goal :)
      - dvtrn 4y ago
        As long as you do it whilst handing them a salt shaker.
  - worik 4y ago
    Senior.... * Accountants doing company liquidations * Trial lawyers * Performance artists Others I cannot think of. Pay rates over $1,000/hr are surprisingly common. Many of the recipients work fewer hours as a result
  - majormajor 4y ago
    I've encountered shops billing $300+ per hour for fairly routine types of software work. And yeah, that's still pretty far away from the $800/hr or so that would be 800k for 20hr weeks, but we're not talking super specialists there. And you're not gonna take home all of that if you're just an employee at that shop, but if you go independent or start your own shop... you suddenly have a higher ceiling for basically just "doing the same thing you were already." It does take a very specific additional skill set to build up a network of clients and have the patience for that to turn into something where you're regularly booked, but if money is the number one thing you want to optimize for, it's something you should investigate.
agumonkey 4y ago
It's always to enjoy more with more regularity
malandrew 4y ago
As an expert in a particular area, this is exactly what I want. Even the same total comp and benefits but half the hours would be good. If I could do one week on and one week off or two weeks on and two weeks off that would be awesome.

gonzo41 4y ago

I would guess that doing the +1 and +2 is mentally and emotionally easier and more satisfying if it's during a hellish 60 hour work week than in a relaxed 10 hours you freed up by getting more pay and a 30 hour week to do something easy. Like doing programming problems is fun for a bit, but doing work that actually does something, even if it's simpler in complexity is more satisfying. IMO of course. I think the recruiters could be pitching better if they went with, do 'it' here and think about what +1 could be and when you figure what that could be, pitch it to us. This of course assumes the organization sees IT as a value multiplier and not a cost center / plumbing job.

plorkyeran 4y ago

Past a certain point the +1 isn't something you can do on your own time. If you're looking to shift into more of a management role that's obviously hard to learn on a side project unless that side project is a full company with employees. Even pure technical skills can require certain scale; you aren't going to learn how to use k8s appropriately on the side because whatever you're doing on the side almost certainly shouldn't be using k8s at all. "Keep doing what you're doing but half the hours and double the salary" is something I would be tempted by, but it would be with the idea that I'm focusing on something other than developing my career.

ryandrake 4y ago
> "Keep doing what you're doing but half the hours and double the salary" is something I would be tempted by It would be tempting, even given the stake I just placed in the ground:[1] But 1. astronomically few companies will offer to double my comp at this late point in my career and 2. Nobody in tech offers part time work but with full benefits…I’d have to be a contractor and find clients and fund my own healthcare and retirement (yuck). It’s at best an theoretical exercise. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31193644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31193644

jmharvey 4y ago

Are there recruiters out there who pitch based on hours and money? Every pitch I get is all about the vision/team/prospects for success. And, yes, "prospects for success" in some ways means "money" but they're never so explicit about it.

bradlys 4y ago

This is just fantasy though. No one is offering $800k/yr at 20hr/week.

maerF0x0 4y ago
I suspect there are people who earn this. I doubt any of them are the traditional definition of "employee" though. Consultant/Contractor might be the closest.
- bradlys 4y ago
  Yes - there are people who win the lottery too. My point is that there isn’t enough for this to really be a thing we should put up as anything but fantasy. If you think you’re gonna get a recruiter who lands this in your inbox - buy lottery tickets instead.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    I see and agree. But it does help to inform people the right way to proceed if 800k in 20hrs a week is their goal :)
    - dvtrn 4y ago
      As long as you do it whilst handing them a salt shaker.
- worik 4y ago
  Senior.... * Accountants doing company liquidations * Trial lawyers * Performance artists Others I cannot think of. Pay rates over $1,000/hr are surprisingly common. Many of the recipients work fewer hours as a result
- majormajor 4y ago
  I've encountered shops billing $300+ per hour for fairly routine types of software work. And yeah, that's still pretty far away from the $800/hr or so that would be 800k for 20hr weeks, but we're not talking super specialists there. And you're not gonna take home all of that if you're just an employee at that shop, but if you go independent or start your own shop... you suddenly have a higher ceiling for basically just "doing the same thing you were already." It does take a very specific additional skill set to build up a network of clients and have the patience for that to turn into something where you're regularly booked, but if money is the number one thing you want to optimize for, it's something you should investigate.

agumonkey 4y ago

It's always to enjoy more with more regularity

malandrew 4y ago

As an expert in a particular area, this is exactly what I want. Even the same total comp and benefits but half the hours would be good. If I could do one week on and one week off or two weeks on and two weeks off that would be awesome.