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I grew up in south west Michigan and absolutely took them for granted. After almost 5 years in Austin we decided to come back to Michigan with the birth of our

I grew up in south west Michigan and absolutely took them for granted. After almost 5 years in Austin we decided to come back to Michigan with the birth of our first child. I missed the lakes terribly, just totally took for granted that not everywhere has fresh water surrounding them on all sides. In this climate change age, being close to so much fresh water really helps calm my nerves knowing that I am in a spot that will be able to weather the changes better then most and possibly become a refuge for more people.

crystoloxy 4y ago
OT: So many folks find themselves moving “home” when kids arrive, for a variety of reasons. As someone considering doing the same I’d be curious to hear yours. I spent last summer in the Midwest (on a lake) and I found it first comforting (no fire season!) and then distressing as the rains failed to come and smoke eventually arrived instead. One of the driest summers I can recall. P
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  My guess is the biggest reason is to be closer to friends, family, and/or community. Having help to raise kids is huge. And when you have kids, you begin to focus on the real important things in life, and the type of environment you want your children to grow up in, and speaking for myself personally, I wanted them around as much family and love as possible. It's also easier to do this now with more remote work opportunities and with more tech hubs across the country now.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Yeah, one of my wife and I's biggest mistakes was staying here in Ontario and settling even deeper into our property after her mother passed away. We should have moved at least temporarily to Alberta where my parents are, because it's been so hard raising kids (and now teens) without any close support. And now we're kind of stuck here, so. When you have kids, having close and extended family nearby is worth more than anything.
- nickysielicki 4y ago
  Pick your poison. Last summer was great because the lack of moisture meant a lack of mosquitoes which meant more enjoyable outdoorsing. I went an entire trip in the boundary waters without using bug spray. Unbelievable!
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  I think every economic migrant I've ever met (myself included) talks about moving home realtively soon "I'm only here for 2/5/ < 10 years", but very few of us do because we become established, make new friends, acquire lots of possessions. Some DO move home for major life events like kids arriving (or leaving) but I don't think it's as many as you assume, it's just very notable. I'm lucky enough to have two sets of family still back home, close enough to visit easily but far enough to make it meaningful and intentional. The desire to move back has weakened every year.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Sure, but before I left Google last year, it was kind of crazy to see how many ex-pat Canadian Googlers transferred from Mountain View to the Waterloo office. Something something, Trump, something something, COVID. Lots of people returning to their home country when things got a bit crazy.
causi 4y ago
I wouldn't bet too much on that. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/the-great-lakes-region-is-not-a-climate-refuge https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/the-great...
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  It's a good article, and I think it's right that things could get much worse here. But it's missing the point, or avoiding it, that things are going to get much much worse in some other places, in particular the US and Canadian west. Record forest fires followed by record floods in BC last year were a bit of a taste of the future, unfortunately.
  - Decabytes 4y ago
    ^This very much. I don't like pessimistic takes, but just based on the way everyone has handled climate change, things are going to be much worse for people not living in the great lakes region. And climate change is going to require cooperation from all the countries as well, and considering how well that goes even today I'm not holding my breath. If everything goes to hell in a hand basket and people start moving towards the great lakes regions en masse, then we will start figuring out how to preserve our great lakes. It could be too little too late, or it could require a massive effort the likes of the moon landing to fix the damage we could have prevented to the lakes if we had been diligent like this article suggest, but in my opinion the great lakes are the key at the end of all of this for a lot of people, and I'd rather have a few generational roots here for my family if that happens.
lettergram 4y ago
> In this climate change age The Great Lakes only exist because the massive ice sheet melted and left the lakes as a deposit some 10-15,000 years ago. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few thousand years the lakes largely dissipate. That said I grew up near the lake, definitely something that’s awesome to live near
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  A few thousand years is a long time. The lakes will be an essential treasure for the next 200 tumultuous years when water supplies become difficult. Imagine what it was like here when the ice sheets first retreated. Niagara falls but times 100.
- khuey 4y ago
  The Great Lakes will eventually go away, but not for the reason you think. Niagara Falls is eroding its way upstream and will eventually reach Lake Erie, at which point Lakes Erie, Huron, and Michigan will all drain away downstream.
  - bregma 4y ago
    How would that work. Would the Niagara gorge suddenly be able to increase its capacity orders of magnitude beyond its physical limits? Would the Detroit and St. Clair rivers suddenly be able to deliver an increased flow into Eerie?
    - jblindsay 4y ago
      Yes, that's correct, it would increase its capacity by orders of magnitude, if not temporarily. The capacity of Lake Erie to hold water is set by the elevation of its outlet, which is currently about 174 m above sea level. Niagara Falls is a knickpoint in the Niagara river, and over time knickpoints in rivers are always smoothed out. This is why Niagara Falls is eroding upstream, and we spend money each year trying to minimize this. As it works it way upstream, it will eventually intersect with the outlet of Lake Erie (over geological time scales), and will start to erode the outlet elevation downwards to achieve that nice concave-upwards longitudinal profile indicative of a river in dynamic equilibrium. In doing so, it will reduce the capacity of Lake Erie quite significantly. Someone above stated that the Great Lakes are below sea-level, and that's true for parts of most of the lakes, but not Erie, which has a maximum depth of about 64 m. It will eventually, over the long term become a wide part of the long river connecting Huron and Ontario. By the way, there are plenty of precedents for rivers suddenly and temporarily increasing their capacity to handle a sudden increase in flow; Google 'channelled scablands' and you might be surprised. I often joke with students that I won't want to live in Missisauga on the shores of Lake Ontario, which I do currently, when this event happens. Of course, it's only a joke because we're talking about a very, very long time away. As for the Detroit and St. Claire rivers increasing their capacity to Erie, I'm not sure why that would be necessary. Flow through this newly created 'Erie River' would simply adapt to carry the capacity of water supplied by Huron all the way to Lake Ontario, just as the Niagara river does now. There's no need for upstream change. Just think, the St. Lawrence River has the ability to convey the entire water supplied by all of the Great Lakes to the Atlantic.
suifbwish 4y ago
You live in one of the states where there is no squatter law and where you can legally shoot and kill someone for trying to steal your car. There is no maximum rifle magazine size. Castle doctrine for the win. Michigan has some interesting demographics. About half of the population in Michigan is concentrated in about 4-5 cities, the other half of the population are spread across much more area and more spread apart. This explains why Michigan can be either a republican or democrat state, most of the votes for state are fairly tied.
- gilbetron 4y ago
  I don't know why you are getting downvoted - as a lifelong michigan resident, the politics are weird and getting weirder. The Michigan Militia and their offshoots are still around and still scary.
  - horpledoo 4y ago
    Maybe because it’s not even remotely on topic and introducing polarizing, flamethrowing topics for absolutely no reason? Born and raised downriver, so I have to ask, why the hell are you apologizing for it? You know just as well as I do that there’s a lot more to Michigan than that take, and that’s coming from someone whose family knows the Terry Nichols family quite well. Hey, a thread about the great lakes, let me shit on this person’s nice story and remind them nowhere is perfect! seems to be the only motivation, either that or stirring up political knife fighting. A flag is far, far more appropriate than a downvote
totemandtoken 4y ago
Man I also live in Michigan and I've spent every moment I can trying to get out. I mean, good for you for figuring out what you want in life and making that happen but you couldn't pay me enough to come back to this place if and when I leave. Funny enough though, you sound very similar to my friend who moved back to Michigan from Portland also because of his first child, so who knows? Maybe there's something to Michigan for raising a family
topspin 4y ago
I go swimming in the West short of lake Huron. It is by far the best water for plain old swimming I've experienced. It's a big body of water so nice rolling waves are constant. Yet, unlike some inland lakes there is no stagnancy, just clear salt free water. Huge sand bars, miles long a hundred meters or more from shore.
- a2tech 4y ago
  My wife and I are looking to buy a lakehouse/property up in Oscoda because we love watching the sun come up and swimming in the lake.

crystoloxy 4y ago

OT: So many folks find themselves moving “home” when kids arrive, for a variety of reasons. As someone considering doing the same I’d be curious to hear yours. I spent last summer in the Midwest (on a lake) and I found it first comforting (no fire season!) and then distressing as the rains failed to come and smoke eventually arrived instead. One of the driest summers I can recall. P

dimitrios1 4y ago
My guess is the biggest reason is to be closer to friends, family, and/or community. Having help to raise kids is huge. And when you have kids, you begin to focus on the real important things in life, and the type of environment you want your children to grow up in, and speaking for myself personally, I wanted them around as much family and love as possible. It's also easier to do this now with more remote work opportunities and with more tech hubs across the country now.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Yeah, one of my wife and I's biggest mistakes was staying here in Ontario and settling even deeper into our property after her mother passed away. We should have moved at least temporarily to Alberta where my parents are, because it's been so hard raising kids (and now teens) without any close support. And now we're kind of stuck here, so. When you have kids, having close and extended family nearby is worth more than anything.
nickysielicki 4y ago
Pick your poison. Last summer was great because the lack of moisture meant a lack of mosquitoes which meant more enjoyable outdoorsing. I went an entire trip in the boundary waters without using bug spray. Unbelievable!
skeeter2020 4y ago
I think every economic migrant I've ever met (myself included) talks about moving home realtively soon "I'm only here for 2/5/ < 10 years", but very few of us do because we become established, make new friends, acquire lots of possessions. Some DO move home for major life events like kids arriving (or leaving) but I don't think it's as many as you assume, it's just very notable. I'm lucky enough to have two sets of family still back home, close enough to visit easily but far enough to make it meaningful and intentional. The desire to move back has weakened every year.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Sure, but before I left Google last year, it was kind of crazy to see how many ex-pat Canadian Googlers transferred from Mountain View to the Waterloo office. Something something, Trump, something something, COVID. Lots of people returning to their home country when things got a bit crazy.

causi 4y ago

I wouldn't bet too much on that. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/the-great-lakes-region-is-not-a-climate-refuge https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-16/the-great...

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
It's a good article, and I think it's right that things could get much worse here. But it's missing the point, or avoiding it, that things are going to get much much worse in some other places, in particular the US and Canadian west. Record forest fires followed by record floods in BC last year were a bit of a taste of the future, unfortunately.
- Decabytes 4y ago
  ^This very much. I don't like pessimistic takes, but just based on the way everyone has handled climate change, things are going to be much worse for people not living in the great lakes region. And climate change is going to require cooperation from all the countries as well, and considering how well that goes even today I'm not holding my breath. If everything goes to hell in a hand basket and people start moving towards the great lakes regions en masse, then we will start figuring out how to preserve our great lakes. It could be too little too late, or it could require a massive effort the likes of the moon landing to fix the damage we could have prevented to the lakes if we had been diligent like this article suggest, but in my opinion the great lakes are the key at the end of all of this for a lot of people, and I'd rather have a few generational roots here for my family if that happens.

lettergram 4y ago

> In this climate change age The Great Lakes only exist because the massive ice sheet melted and left the lakes as a deposit some 10-15,000 years ago. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few thousand years the lakes largely dissipate. That said I grew up near the lake, definitely something that’s awesome to live near

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
A few thousand years is a long time. The lakes will be an essential treasure for the next 200 tumultuous years when water supplies become difficult. Imagine what it was like here when the ice sheets first retreated. Niagara falls but times 100.
khuey 4y ago
The Great Lakes will eventually go away, but not for the reason you think. Niagara Falls is eroding its way upstream and will eventually reach Lake Erie, at which point Lakes Erie, Huron, and Michigan will all drain away downstream.
- bregma 4y ago
  How would that work. Would the Niagara gorge suddenly be able to increase its capacity orders of magnitude beyond its physical limits? Would the Detroit and St. Clair rivers suddenly be able to deliver an increased flow into Eerie?
  - jblindsay 4y ago
    Yes, that's correct, it would increase its capacity by orders of magnitude, if not temporarily. The capacity of Lake Erie to hold water is set by the elevation of its outlet, which is currently about 174 m above sea level. Niagara Falls is a knickpoint in the Niagara river, and over time knickpoints in rivers are always smoothed out. This is why Niagara Falls is eroding upstream, and we spend money each year trying to minimize this. As it works it way upstream, it will eventually intersect with the outlet of Lake Erie (over geological time scales), and will start to erode the outlet elevation downwards to achieve that nice concave-upwards longitudinal profile indicative of a river in dynamic equilibrium. In doing so, it will reduce the capacity of Lake Erie quite significantly. Someone above stated that the Great Lakes are below sea-level, and that's true for parts of most of the lakes, but not Erie, which has a maximum depth of about 64 m. It will eventually, over the long term become a wide part of the long river connecting Huron and Ontario. By the way, there are plenty of precedents for rivers suddenly and temporarily increasing their capacity to handle a sudden increase in flow; Google 'channelled scablands' and you might be surprised. I often joke with students that I won't want to live in Missisauga on the shores of Lake Ontario, which I do currently, when this event happens. Of course, it's only a joke because we're talking about a very, very long time away. As for the Detroit and St. Claire rivers increasing their capacity to Erie, I'm not sure why that would be necessary. Flow through this newly created 'Erie River' would simply adapt to carry the capacity of water supplied by Huron all the way to Lake Ontario, just as the Niagara river does now. There's no need for upstream change. Just think, the St. Lawrence River has the ability to convey the entire water supplied by all of the Great Lakes to the Atlantic.

suifbwish 4y ago

You live in one of the states where there is no squatter law and where you can legally shoot and kill someone for trying to steal your car. There is no maximum rifle magazine size. Castle doctrine for the win. Michigan has some interesting demographics. About half of the population in Michigan is concentrated in about 4-5 cities, the other half of the population are spread across much more area and more spread apart. This explains why Michigan can be either a republican or democrat state, most of the votes for state are fairly tied.

gilbetron 4y ago
I don't know why you are getting downvoted - as a lifelong michigan resident, the politics are weird and getting weirder. The Michigan Militia and their offshoots are still around and still scary.
- horpledoo 4y ago
  Maybe because it’s not even remotely on topic and introducing polarizing, flamethrowing topics for absolutely no reason? Born and raised downriver, so I have to ask, why the hell are you apologizing for it? You know just as well as I do that there’s a lot more to Michigan than that take, and that’s coming from someone whose family knows the Terry Nichols family quite well. Hey, a thread about the great lakes, let me shit on this person’s nice story and remind them nowhere is perfect! seems to be the only motivation, either that or stirring up political knife fighting. A flag is far, far more appropriate than a downvote

totemandtoken 4y ago

Man I also live in Michigan and I've spent every moment I can trying to get out. I mean, good for you for figuring out what you want in life and making that happen but you couldn't pay me enough to come back to this place if and when I leave. Funny enough though, you sound very similar to my friend who moved back to Michigan from Portland also because of his first child, so who knows? Maybe there's something to Michigan for raising a family

topspin 4y ago

I go swimming in the West short of lake Huron. It is by far the best water for plain old swimming I've experienced. It's a big body of water so nice rolling waves are constant. Yet, unlike some inland lakes there is no stagnancy, just clear salt free water. Huge sand bars, miles long a hundred meters or more from shore.

a2tech 4y ago
My wife and I are looking to buy a lakehouse/property up in Oscoda because we love watching the sun come up and swimming in the lake.