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I am not trying to make this about China in particular, but I'm biting: I would love to see some peer reviewed papers about vaccination efficiency of Chinese vs

I am not trying to make this about China in particular, but I'm biting: I would love to see some peer reviewed papers about vaccination efficiency of Chinese vs. European vs. American vs. Russian vs. Cuban vaccines (bonus points if it distinguishes about efficiency against different strains). Just like with infection numbers, which appear suspiciously low in some countries, there does not seem to be much good information on the vaccinations. > The problem in mainland China (and in Hong Kong) is that many old people refuse to get vaccinated, for whatever reason Geez, I wonder why especially old people - who lived through the CPC's chaos years with misguided policies at best and open human rights violations at worst - are reluctant to trust medical treatment that is strongly suggested by the CPC. > In reality, life has been closer to normal in mainland China than in the US or Europe for most of the last 2 years. And that I didn't contest. I am just saying that when an outbreak eventually will escape controllability, we will see a delayed mass dying. > The current lockdown in Shanghai is the first major lockdown the city has had since early 2020. I think you should also take into account that lockdown, China-style is a whole different beast from lockdown as understood by the rest of the world.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
> I would love to see some peer reviewed papers about vaccination efficiency of Chinese vs. European vs. American vs. Russian vs. Cuban vaccines The recent Hong Kong outbreak allowed a direct head-to-head comparison of Sinovac and BioNTech/Pfizer. The results were a bit surprising: 3 doses of Sinovac were just as effective as 3 doses of BioNTech.[0] This study only looked at Omicron (nothing that is circulating in HK), and only these two vaccines. China has other vaccines using different technologies as well (CanSino uses an adenovirus vector,[1] Angui Zhifei Longcom uses protein subunits [2]). There are studies about the various vaccines, generally conducted outside China. > Just like with infection numbers, which appear suspiciously low in some countries, there does not seem to be much good information on the vaccinations. Ironically, this perception is due to the information bubble in the West when it comes to China. There's a ton of extremely detailed information about infections in mainland China, but you'll simply never read about it in the popular press in the West. If you read Chinese, you can look up the address of every newly infected person on each day. Many cities will publish detailed contact tracing information about each case, telling you where they've been and when they were there, what trains and planes they've taken (and what seat they sat in), and all sorts of other information. It's kind of difficult to convey just how wrong the narrative that "we don't know what's going on in China" is. The thing is, once you see the measures that China is taking, such as border quarantine, mass testing, and extremely detailed contact tracing, it's not at all mysterious how the country has managed to contain SARS-CoV-2. > Geez, I wonder why especially old people - who lived through the CPC's chaos years ... Those old people tend to actually be the most committed believers in the Communist Party. There are other issues at play, such as belief in Traditional Chinese Medicine. > I am just saying that when an outbreak eventually will escape controllability, we will see a delayed mass dying. It will be far lower (per capita) than the death toll in Europe and the US, because China managed to get through the era in which vaccines and antiviral drugs were unavailable without suffering mass infection. If China manages to vaccinate (or even boost) most of its elderly population before the lifting controls, its per-capita death toll will be only a tiny fraction of what the West has experienced. 0. This is still a preprint, but it's from a well respected group: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convidecia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convidecia 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF2001 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF2001

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

> I would love to see some peer reviewed papers about vaccination efficiency of Chinese vs. European vs. American vs. Russian vs. Cuban vaccines The recent Hong Kong outbreak allowed a direct head-to-head comparison of Sinovac and BioNTech/Pfizer. The results were a bit surprising: 3 doses of Sinovac were just as effective as 3 doses of BioNTech.[0] This study only looked at Omicron (nothing that is circulating in HK), and only these two vaccines. China has other vaccines using different technologies as well (CanSino uses an adenovirus vector,[1] Angui Zhifei Longcom uses protein subunits [2]). There are studies about the various vaccines, generally conducted outside China. > Just like with infection numbers, which appear suspiciously low in some countries, there does not seem to be much good information on the vaccinations. Ironically, this perception is due to the information bubble in the West when it comes to China. There's a ton of extremely detailed information about infections in mainland China, but you'll simply never read about it in the popular press in the West. If you read Chinese, you can look up the address of every newly infected person on each day. Many cities will publish detailed contact tracing information about each case, telling you where they've been and when they were there, what trains and planes they've taken (and what seat they sat in), and all sorts of other information. It's kind of difficult to convey just how wrong the narrative that "we don't know what's going on in China" is. The thing is, once you see the measures that China is taking, such as border quarantine, mass testing, and extremely detailed contact tracing, it's not at all mysterious how the country has managed to contain SARS-CoV-2. > Geez, I wonder why especially old people - who lived through the CPC's chaos years ... Those old people tend to actually be the most committed believers in the Communist Party. There are other issues at play, such as belief in Traditional Chinese Medicine. > I am just saying that when an outbreak eventually will escape controllability, we will see a delayed mass dying. It will be far lower (per capita) than the death toll in Europe and the US, because China managed to get through the era in which vaccines and antiviral drugs were unavailable without suffering mass infection. If China manages to vaccinate (or even boost) most of its elderly population before the lifting controls, its per-capita death toll will be only a tiny fraction of what the West has experienced. 0. This is still a preprint, but it's from a well respected group: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convidecia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convidecia 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF2001 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF2001