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> it's a huge waste of resources peoples' liberties Are you an actual resident in Asia or a Westerner armchair philosophizing what people in Asia actually want

> it's a huge waste of resources peoples' liberties Are you an actual resident in Asia or a Westerner armchair philosophizing what people in Asia actually want. Here’s a glimpse from actual Asian people, from a democratic country. These people here are being polite and aren’t saying outright, but a sentiment expressed here that’s pretty common is Asian people thinks it’s admirable that Americans have individual liberty, and acknowledge there are pros and cons to that. If you actually understood Asian culture and why these countries have these policies, then you’d know it’s not really a compliment. In Asia, maybe / kind-of means no. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ctmxV-yNhg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ctmxV-yNhg My partner is Taiwanese, and I am American. We moved Japan to during the pandemic because we don’t agree with the West and Americans’ attitude towards coronavirus. There is a lot of overlap between Taiwan and Japan, Taiwan being more “liberal” in some respects and Japan being conservative, but otherwise people from both countries on average prefer personal inconvenience for the collective good, especially given both of these cultures have a respect for the elderly. We prefer what you call “draconian” measures. Let people who are residents in Asia deal with their governments. Who said people want liberty above all else? Freedom requires responsibility, and America hasn’t been for a while. Worry about the host of problems in America, because Asia is doing just fine. People in the tourism industry are incentivized otherwise, but other people in Taiwan / Japan aren’t minding the inconveniences, so why are you? In fact, people are kind of enjoying the domestic venues without tourists, especially given the high propensity of Westerners who refuse to wear mask ( even when they are vaccinated ).

gagorder100 4y ago
Asia is not doing fine and not everyone agrees: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/04/19/in-shanghai-anger-and-resistance-are-growing-against-severe-lockdowns_5981000_114.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/04/19/in-... The lockdowns are great for the privileged class that "works" via Zoom meetings and can afford to move to another country if the current one does not sufficiently serve its interests.
- alephnan 4y ago
  So you cherry pick an article about Shanghai, and generalize it to Asia? The West conveniently omits Taiwan’s and Japan’s continued success with Covid for 2 years while the West sacrificed millions. I’m living my life and commuting as normal. Commute hours are packed full shoulder to shoulder. I feel way safer than in New York. New Zealand is another pacific Island that received outsized acclaim from the West. Guess what’s the difference between New Zealand and those Asian countries? There’s also Vietnam, which for a country much lower on the economic progression has done exceedingly well. Ofcourse Westerners and the West will say these Asian countries have skewed data because the don’t have tests. It was nearly impossible to find a covid test within a 2 week time frame in my hometown American city with a population over a million and an NBA team. Even then, I had to use a bot to hog a spot, then pay $200. In Japan, you can receive a test on the day throughout the pandemic and it cost less than $30. 95% of businesses in Japan do temperature checks and require hand sanitizers throughout 2021.
  - josephg 4y ago
    > while the West sacrificed millions Australia and NZ are usually considered part of "the west". Culturally and ethnically, this is certainly true. You're frustrated people lump everyone in Asia together, as if its all one country. Please don't make the same mistake with "the west". We aren't one country either. If you want to criticise the USA's handling of covid, do so. Us westerners aren't a homogeneous block either. I'm proud that Australia's covid response was much closer to that of Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam than it was to the USA and Canada.
    - zht 4y ago
      what if they said "Europe and North America"?
      - josephg 4y ago
        I wouldn’t object, but I’m not European or North American. Even within Europe there was a variety of responses to covid. Different places are different. We may all be addicted to the same smartphones, but globally the way different counties responded to covid differed wildly. Even painting the whole of the USA with the same brush feels a bit reductive. This is just as true in the west as it is in the east.
petesergeant 4y ago
Ah, Asia, that homogenous landmass where everyone and every country wants the same thing > Who said people want liberty above all else? Freedom requires responsibility I have many photos on my phone of people wearing facemasks but not helmets on their scooters > Worry about the host of problems in America, because Asia is doing just fine The old America/Asia dichotomy! > Asia is doing just fine How "Asia" is doing is exceptionally country-specific
- alephnan 4y ago
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    > Okay, so if they get into an accident are they hurting themselves or others by not wearing a helmet? Literally proves the point about Westerners thinking in terms of selfish terms. Have you checked out vaccination rates for older people yet? Over 75s, in Taiwan the vax rate is 68%, compared to 83% in the US, and 92% in the UK.[0] These are the people most likely to require medical care, and for whom taking a vaccine would have the biggest effect on not overloading the healthcare systems in their countries. > scooters, which is most likely Taiwan or Vietnam if you had any idea how ridiculous this comment sounds to anyone who's spent time in the region I don't think you'd have made it > Tell me you’re not a white guy yearning for Asia to open up so you can travel without intentions of wearing a mask. Born and raised in Thailand, and spent most of the pandemic there. Probably time you stepped away from the keyboard, eh? These hot-takes from a recent immigrant to Asia about how Asians feel are not a good look. [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-hesitancy-among-taiwans-elderly-mars-pandemic-performance/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...
exact_string 4y ago
I guess the problem, and the point of the parent post, is that the full containment of the omicron variant might be very difficult in the long term. Also since the omicron is milder and vaccines rather effective (as long as you don't refuse taking one), it's worth asking how much collective good is gained by personal inconvenience. At least some people in South Korea seem to think that in the current situation the old restrictions are not worth it: https://www.ft.com/content/4be21b01-efd3-4f67-b353-7bad9eb33607 https://www.ft.com/content/4be21b01-efd3-4f67-b353-7bad9eb33...
josephg 4y ago
> We moved Japan to during the pandemic because we don’t agree with the West and Americans’ attitude towards coronavirus. Not everyone in "the West" agrees with america's attitude to covid. All the things this article talks about are very similar to things we did here in Australia. (Though lets be honest - the system probably worked much better in Taipei.) Here in Melbourne we endured 263 days in lockdown. We were allowed to leave our homes - but only for essential supplies, outdoor exercise, medical care or essential work. Unless you had a good reason, you couldn't travel more than 5km from home. We also had a nightly curfew, and all restaurants were closed (or take away only). And of course, we couldn't visit other people's homes. Wherever you went you needed to do QR code checkins so they could do contact tracing. The city became a ghost town. After 9pm (or whenever the curfew was) the only people out were the occasional nurse or delivery driver heading home, and a swarm of ubereats / doordash drivers feeding everyone. Everything has opened up again now that everyone who wants a vaccine has had one. And now we're just letting omicron do its thing. For the most part, I support our government's response. I was watching the situation play out in the USA with horror. 1 million people dead, and nobody cares? What on earth? And there were apparently protests in NY about the "totalitarian" situation in Australia? Uh, what? We aren't the ones who need saving thankyouverymuch. I had a friend visit from the USA for a funeral and she got put in hotel quarantine for 14 days in Sydney. She was so upset and angry over it all. I didn't know what to say - I'm glad she was in quarantine. Her right to go to the funeral didn't trump the rights of australians to stay safe from any disease she carried. Covid made the world a big place again. Everywhere had different policies, and everyone had a different experience.

gagorder100 4y ago

Asia is not doing fine and not everyone agrees: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/04/19/in-shanghai-anger-and-resistance-are-growing-against-severe-lockdowns_5981000_114.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/article/2022/04/19/in-... The lockdowns are great for the privileged class that "works" via Zoom meetings and can afford to move to another country if the current one does not sufficiently serve its interests.

alephnan 4y ago
So you cherry pick an article about Shanghai, and generalize it to Asia? The West conveniently omits Taiwan’s and Japan’s continued success with Covid for 2 years while the West sacrificed millions. I’m living my life and commuting as normal. Commute hours are packed full shoulder to shoulder. I feel way safer than in New York. New Zealand is another pacific Island that received outsized acclaim from the West. Guess what’s the difference between New Zealand and those Asian countries? There’s also Vietnam, which for a country much lower on the economic progression has done exceedingly well. Ofcourse Westerners and the West will say these Asian countries have skewed data because the don’t have tests. It was nearly impossible to find a covid test within a 2 week time frame in my hometown American city with a population over a million and an NBA team. Even then, I had to use a bot to hog a spot, then pay $200. In Japan, you can receive a test on the day throughout the pandemic and it cost less than $30. 95% of businesses in Japan do temperature checks and require hand sanitizers throughout 2021.
- josephg 4y ago
  > while the West sacrificed millions Australia and NZ are usually considered part of "the west". Culturally and ethnically, this is certainly true. You're frustrated people lump everyone in Asia together, as if its all one country. Please don't make the same mistake with "the west". We aren't one country either. If you want to criticise the USA's handling of covid, do so. Us westerners aren't a homogeneous block either. I'm proud that Australia's covid response was much closer to that of Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam than it was to the USA and Canada.
  - zht 4y ago
    what if they said "Europe and North America"?
    - josephg 4y ago
      I wouldn’t object, but I’m not European or North American. Even within Europe there was a variety of responses to covid. Different places are different. We may all be addicted to the same smartphones, but globally the way different counties responded to covid differed wildly. Even painting the whole of the USA with the same brush feels a bit reductive. This is just as true in the west as it is in the east.

petesergeant 4y ago

Ah, Asia, that homogenous landmass where everyone and every country wants the same thing > Who said people want liberty above all else? Freedom requires responsibility I have many photos on my phone of people wearing facemasks but not helmets on their scooters > Worry about the host of problems in America, because Asia is doing just fine The old America/Asia dichotomy! > Asia is doing just fine How "Asia" is doing is exceptionally country-specific

alephnan 4y ago
- petesergeant 4y ago
  > Okay, so if they get into an accident are they hurting themselves or others by not wearing a helmet? Literally proves the point about Westerners thinking in terms of selfish terms. Have you checked out vaccination rates for older people yet? Over 75s, in Taiwan the vax rate is 68%, compared to 83% in the US, and 92% in the UK.[0] These are the people most likely to require medical care, and for whom taking a vaccine would have the biggest effect on not overloading the healthcare systems in their countries. > scooters, which is most likely Taiwan or Vietnam if you had any idea how ridiculous this comment sounds to anyone who's spent time in the region I don't think you'd have made it > Tell me you’re not a white guy yearning for Asia to open up so you can travel without intentions of wearing a mask. Born and raised in Thailand, and spent most of the pandemic there. Probably time you stepped away from the keyboard, eh? These hot-takes from a recent immigrant to Asia about how Asians feel are not a good look. [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-hesitancy-among-taiwans-elderly-mars-pandemic-performance/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...

exact_string 4y ago

I guess the problem, and the point of the parent post, is that the full containment of the omicron variant might be very difficult in the long term. Also since the omicron is milder and vaccines rather effective (as long as you don't refuse taking one), it's worth asking how much collective good is gained by personal inconvenience. At least some people in South Korea seem to think that in the current situation the old restrictions are not worth it: https://www.ft.com/content/4be21b01-efd3-4f67-b353-7bad9eb33607 https://www.ft.com/content/4be21b01-efd3-4f67-b353-7bad9eb33...

josephg 4y ago

> We moved Japan to during the pandemic because we don’t agree with the West and Americans’ attitude towards coronavirus. Not everyone in "the West" agrees with america's attitude to covid. All the things this article talks about are very similar to things we did here in Australia. (Though lets be honest - the system probably worked much better in Taipei.) Here in Melbourne we endured 263 days in lockdown. We were allowed to leave our homes - but only for essential supplies, outdoor exercise, medical care or essential work. Unless you had a good reason, you couldn't travel more than 5km from home. We also had a nightly curfew, and all restaurants were closed (or take away only). And of course, we couldn't visit other people's homes. Wherever you went you needed to do QR code checkins so they could do contact tracing. The city became a ghost town. After 9pm (or whenever the curfew was) the only people out were the occasional nurse or delivery driver heading home, and a swarm of ubereats / doordash drivers feeding everyone. Everything has opened up again now that everyone who wants a vaccine has had one. And now we're just letting omicron do its thing. For the most part, I support our government's response. I was watching the situation play out in the USA with horror. 1 million people dead, and nobody cares? What on earth? And there were apparently protests in NY about the "totalitarian" situation in Australia? Uh, what? We aren't the ones who need saving thankyouverymuch. I had a friend visit from the USA for a funeral and she got put in hotel quarantine for 14 days in Sydney. She was so upset and angry over it all. I didn't know what to say - I'm glad she was in quarantine. Her right to go to the funeral didn't trump the rights of australians to stay safe from any disease she carried. Covid made the world a big place again. Everywhere had different policies, and everyone had a different experience.