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It is a mistake to assume both sides in this war are equal. There is no "equality of opinion" here, there is no "equal amounts of propaganda" on both sides. Onl

It is a mistake to assume both sides in this war are equal. There is no "equality of opinion" here, there is no "equal amounts of propaganda" on both sides. Only one side in this war has invaded the other side's country, blocked their own citizens' access to information, persecutes domestic calls for peace, and promotes violence toward the other side publicly on national television. This is not propaganda, these are facts.

ncmncm 5y ago
True, but information getting out is very uneven, leading to many incorrect inferences. Russia is sustaining high losses, but they can afford many more losses than Ukraine can, without necessarily losing as a result: they can keep sending in more men, more tanks, more planes, more helicopters, and more missiles. Western countries are sending in small arms, but those need to be delivered precisely to where the Russians are by troops who know how to use them effectively. Most of us would hate for Ukraine to lose, and Russia seems to be doing poorly, but it has frequently been a mistake to expect Russia to fail in the end just because they start out badly.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  This is true, but that was also the case for Russia in Afghanistan, or the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. It's hard to tell what Russia's goals really are because on one hand they say "we just want the Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk to be free", and on the other hand Putin is also openly saying Ukraine isn't really an independent country. Besides, Kyiv isn't in Donetsk or Luhansk is it? Maybe Putin's map is wrong. Even if they managed to complete their military goals this week by defeating the Ukrainian armed forces and toppling the Ukrainian government they will either have to retreat and leave Ukraine independent with extremely hostile views towards Russia (and will probably try to join NATO/EU), or they will have to occupy an extremely hostile population who feel their country is invaded by a hostile malevolent power. It seems to me that Russia already lost, no matter what happens militarily; they dug themselves into a pit that will be very hard to climb out of. The biggest question is how much (more) Ukraine will lose in all of this.
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    They are trying to get as much as they can. Any small win will matter because they will have more than at the start of the war. They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. The easy thing for Russia is to conquer Donbass - where the population is very pro-russian and won't feel as being invaded by a malevolent country. They will probably try to conquer all Black Sea coast to cut Ukraine's access to the sea. And they will try to maintain a frozen conflict in Ukraine, so it won't join NATO. We even might see other invasions in Ukraine after the current one ends.
    - Beltalowda 5y ago
      > Any small win will matter because they will have more than at the start of the war. But at what price? And getting it is one thing; keeping it quite another. Remember both Napoleon and Hitler "got" large parts of Russia, but it also proved to be a huge factor in their eventual downfall. > They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. Yes, that's what Putin said. He also attacked regions far from the Donbas region and said that Ukraine is not a real country, the implication being of course that it's really just a part of Russia. So colour me skeptical.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      1: War started in 2014. 2: Russia already holds Crimea. 3: Russia has announced intention to take over the whole Black Sea coast west to Moldova. 4: A clear majority even in easternmost Donbas want Russia out.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. They've stated a whole lot of things changing focus among them over time, not just those two (denazification of Ukraine, demilitarization of Ukraine, a state union between Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia, restoration of historical Russia and reversals of territory alienated from Russia by Soviet leaders and the dissolution of the Soviet Union which was itself an embodiment, though misled, of Russia, etc., all have come from either government or state media sources.)
- jdkee 4y ago
  Ukraine's operating tank count has increased since the war began.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
Only one side has blocked info? Hmmm.
- parasti 5y ago
  Please elaborate.
mysecretaccount 5y ago
> This is not propaganda, these are facts. These are not mutually exclusive terms.

ncmncm 5y ago

True, but information getting out is very uneven, leading to many incorrect inferences. Russia is sustaining high losses, but they can afford many more losses than Ukraine can, without necessarily losing as a result: they can keep sending in more men, more tanks, more planes, more helicopters, and more missiles. Western countries are sending in small arms, but those need to be delivered precisely to where the Russians are by troops who know how to use them effectively. Most of us would hate for Ukraine to lose, and Russia seems to be doing poorly, but it has frequently been a mistake to expect Russia to fail in the end just because they start out badly.

Beltalowda 5y ago
This is true, but that was also the case for Russia in Afghanistan, or the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. It's hard to tell what Russia's goals really are because on one hand they say "we just want the Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk to be free", and on the other hand Putin is also openly saying Ukraine isn't really an independent country. Besides, Kyiv isn't in Donetsk or Luhansk is it? Maybe Putin's map is wrong. Even if they managed to complete their military goals this week by defeating the Ukrainian armed forces and toppling the Ukrainian government they will either have to retreat and leave Ukraine independent with extremely hostile views towards Russia (and will probably try to join NATO/EU), or they will have to occupy an extremely hostile population who feel their country is invaded by a hostile malevolent power. It seems to me that Russia already lost, no matter what happens militarily; they dug themselves into a pit that will be very hard to climb out of. The biggest question is how much (more) Ukraine will lose in all of this.
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  They are trying to get as much as they can. Any small win will matter because they will have more than at the start of the war. They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. The easy thing for Russia is to conquer Donbass - where the population is very pro-russian and won't feel as being invaded by a malevolent country. They will probably try to conquer all Black Sea coast to cut Ukraine's access to the sea. And they will try to maintain a frozen conflict in Ukraine, so it won't join NATO. We even might see other invasions in Ukraine after the current one ends.
  - Beltalowda 5y ago
    > Any small win will matter because they will have more than at the start of the war. But at what price? And getting it is one thing; keeping it quite another. Remember both Napoleon and Hitler "got" large parts of Russia, but it also proved to be a huge factor in their eventual downfall. > They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. Yes, that's what Putin said. He also attacked regions far from the Donbas region and said that Ukraine is not a real country, the implication being of course that it's really just a part of Russia. So colour me skeptical.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    1: War started in 2014. 2: Russia already holds Crimea. 3: Russia has announced intention to take over the whole Black Sea coast west to Moldova. 4: A clear majority even in easternmost Donbas want Russia out.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > They stated what their goals are: stop Ucraine from joining NATO and obtaining the independence for Donbass region. They've stated a whole lot of things changing focus among them over time, not just those two (denazification of Ukraine, demilitarization of Ukraine, a state union between Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia, restoration of historical Russia and reversals of territory alienated from Russia by Soviet leaders and the dissolution of the Soviet Union which was itself an embodiment, though misled, of Russia, etc., all have come from either government or state media sources.)
jdkee 4y ago
Ukraine's operating tank count has increased since the war began.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

Only one side has blocked info? Hmmm.

parasti 5y ago
Please elaborate.

mysecretaccount 5y ago

> This is not propaganda, these are facts. These are not mutually exclusive terms.