6 ms·

If you think every project out there is some scam, and the entire space is speculation, then you’re in a similar polar opposite bubble to those trading jpegs. T

by exdsq 4y ago

If you think every project out there is some scam, and the entire space is speculation, then you’re in a similar polar opposite bubble to those trading jpegs. There’s loads of cool things going on in the space that allow you to build products that currently requires third parties, huge frameworks, and trust.

Hamuko 4y ago
What cool things?
- trainsarebetter 4y ago
  Helium has actually re stimulated my interest in the space. if you can come up with a set of proofs for a particular action/solution that you can boot strap a network without the need for a company, that’s huge if actually true.
- thawaya3113 4y ago
  Or you can just bet on the many apps where this is already legal and you don’t have to code anything or pay gas fees.
  - exdsq 4y ago
    Assume you were replying to my comment so will reply! So for the first part - this isn’t as simple as you suggest. First off, you need to be in the same country as most require KYC for your specific location (SSN or NI numbers). Second, few let you make your own peer-to-peer bets! Third, they tend to have significant fees or minimum deposits etc… regarding your second point layer 2 chains solve that issue and have done for the last year or more, fees are far far lower and sometimes even non-existent. Also we probably don’t get to pick our own oracles! I don’t know of any site anywhere that does. In comparison this is a fairly simple DApp to build.
    - Hamuko 4y ago
      Is the lack of KYC a feature?
      - exdsq 4y ago
        In terms of small international betting it is, you try find a site that lets you bet between the US and the UK.
        Hamuko 4y ago
        As far as I can tell, the only useful application for the blockchain seems to be gambling with sanctioned Russian oligarchs without the annoying trip to Russia that you'd need to do without the blockchain. Doesn't really sound that appealing since I don't think gambling is an useful application of anything, blockchain or not.
        exdsq 4y ago
        > As far as I can tell, the only useful application for the blockchain seems to be gambling with sanctioned Russian oligarchs without the annoying trip to Russia that you'd need to do without the blockchain. Come on man, don't strawman discussions or why would I bother continuing to talk to you? If you have decided that you dislike a tech for whatever reason fine, but do something more productive with your time than just chatting crap on the internet.
    - random-one 4y ago
      > First off, you need to be in the same country as most require KYC for your specific location (SSN or NI numbers). This is probably because social gambling is still illegal in some places and any legitimate company will not want to participate in your illegal activity. But using crypto tech for facilitating illegal things tracks..
- exdsq 4y ago
  I quite like oracle based betting. Lots of sports/gaming/news apps have public APIs to see the results of something - aggregate them, plug them into a smart contract, and bet a total stranger on the outcome of an event with internet money held in an escrow account paid to the winner. Getting pretty simple to set up nowadays with drag and drop oracle creation a with some cool results, such as betting $10 on a 1v1 CoD game.
  - peteforde 4y ago
    Very few human social outcomes are truly improved by adding the ability to gamble.
    - dtagames 4y ago
      It could be argued that gambling is central to human activity. Its ultimate form is the stock market. In essence, everyone gambles every day on many kinds of outcomes, from choosing foods that won't kill us to driving safely, investing in one career and hobby over another, or picking a mating partner.
      - peteforde 4y ago
        It'd be very hard for me to disagree with the spirit of your reply more than I do. Creating opportunities for people to gamble - new casinos, scratch-off tickets, those sad machines you see in bars - all of these are cash generation vehicles that historically have highly negative outcomes for members of the communities they are dropped into. Especially for groups that are already disadvantaged. This isn't academic speculation. As for gambling on every day outcomes - otherwise known as living your life - it's reasonable to say that one of the fundamental measures of progress as a species and a society is our distance from accidentally eating poisoned food, dangerous driving, a lack of opportunity and self-determination, and being forced to accept bad partners. In other words, the more we remove gambling, the better our lives become.
        dtagames 4y ago
jeffbee 4y ago
The entire world runs on third parties and trust. It works.
- exdsq 4y ago
  We don’t know each other - how would we trade or bet or do something that requires trusting each other? For example what would be your current solution to have a $10 bet on the outcome of a sports game tomorrow, between me and you?
  - djur 4y ago
    Why is that useful to do?
    - exdsq 4y ago
      You've never said "Hey, I know you're wrong, let's bet on it!" on the internet but never been able to go much further? I know I have! Plus I've definitely wanted to play 1v1 games for a bit of money (video games that is). And many others have, as people solving this issue are raising millions and have thousands of users already :) You may not personally find it useful but it's much harder to solve on the "Web2 stack" than the "Web3 stack" if such descriptions exist.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Silk road, an illegal enterprise, basically ran on trust and reputation (and USPS) and that part of it actually had nothing to do with crypto or blockchains.
  - lifeformed 4y ago
    I'd send you $10 by paypal if I win, and expect you to do the same if you lose. If you don't, I'd call you out on these forums. If you wanted to bet more money, I'd use an escrow service. But also, why would I want to bet on sports against a random stranger?
    - exdsq 4y ago
cuteboy19 4y ago
Huge frameworks exist in the crypto world too (huge in relation to the EVM's miniscule capabilities). Frameworkization is a software phenomenon that is orthogonal to trust or anything like that
- exdsq 4y ago
  But if an abstraction exists that makes things much simpler to work with, maybe it's worth considering? Just imagine the code required on-top of digital banking to buy a ticket to a gig from me online. Those companies that manage this charge huge fees, have huge teams, and it's all sorts of complex. Approaching it from a Web3/NFT standpoint, you mint a series of tickets to your gig. You sell those tickets to people for crypto in a single atomic transaction. Metadata says it's a resellable ticket? Then those people who bought it can sell it to others too! Skeptical it's an authentic ticket? Check if it was minted by the band. Skeptical it's not resellable? Check the meta data. Skeptical they won't send you the genuine ticket? Atomic txs and NFTs mean it's one single tx - a gig ticket for some money. Want to make resellable tickets but you want 5% of the resale? Add a creator rule to the token. Want to check people have valid tickets at the gig? QR code that reads a wallet for a token from the sent of minted tokens. These things that right now span multiple businesses, have multiple fees, constant fraud, are slow, and require signing up in multiple places are literally free with crypto. It's just part of the technology. I think that's pretty cool and has some use cases in an increasingly digital world.
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    NFTs as tickets have a fundamental flaw: it is a decentralized front end to a centralized backend. Ultimately there is only one person in full control: the organizer of the event. So we can easily dismiss all of the claims you made because all these things can be done more easily via non blockchain solutions.
Bancakes 4y ago
I don't want trust. I want to download my favorite html files over https. Why ruin the internet further?

by exdsq 4y ago

Hamuko 4y ago

What cool things?

trainsarebetter 4y ago
Helium has actually re stimulated my interest in the space. if you can come up with a set of proofs for a particular action/solution that you can boot strap a network without the need for a company, that’s huge if actually true.
thawaya3113 4y ago
Or you can just bet on the many apps where this is already legal and you don’t have to code anything or pay gas fees.
- exdsq 4y ago
  Assume you were replying to my comment so will reply! So for the first part - this isn’t as simple as you suggest. First off, you need to be in the same country as most require KYC for your specific location (SSN or NI numbers). Second, few let you make your own peer-to-peer bets! Third, they tend to have significant fees or minimum deposits etc… regarding your second point layer 2 chains solve that issue and have done for the last year or more, fees are far far lower and sometimes even non-existent. Also we probably don’t get to pick our own oracles! I don’t know of any site anywhere that does. In comparison this is a fairly simple DApp to build.
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Is the lack of KYC a feature?
    - exdsq 4y ago
      In terms of small international betting it is, you try find a site that lets you bet between the US and the UK.
      - Hamuko 4y ago
        As far as I can tell, the only useful application for the blockchain seems to be gambling with sanctioned Russian oligarchs without the annoying trip to Russia that you'd need to do without the blockchain. Doesn't really sound that appealing since I don't think gambling is an useful application of anything, blockchain or not.
        exdsq 4y ago
        > As far as I can tell, the only useful application for the blockchain seems to be gambling with sanctioned Russian oligarchs without the annoying trip to Russia that you'd need to do without the blockchain. Come on man, don't strawman discussions or why would I bother continuing to talk to you? If you have decided that you dislike a tech for whatever reason fine, but do something more productive with your time than just chatting crap on the internet.
  - random-one 4y ago
    > First off, you need to be in the same country as most require KYC for your specific location (SSN or NI numbers). This is probably because social gambling is still illegal in some places and any legitimate company will not want to participate in your illegal activity. But using crypto tech for facilitating illegal things tracks..
exdsq 4y ago
I quite like oracle based betting. Lots of sports/gaming/news apps have public APIs to see the results of something - aggregate them, plug them into a smart contract, and bet a total stranger on the outcome of an event with internet money held in an escrow account paid to the winner. Getting pretty simple to set up nowadays with drag and drop oracle creation a with some cool results, such as betting $10 on a 1v1 CoD game.
- peteforde 4y ago
  Very few human social outcomes are truly improved by adding the ability to gamble.
  - dtagames 4y ago
    It could be argued that gambling is central to human activity. Its ultimate form is the stock market. In essence, everyone gambles every day on many kinds of outcomes, from choosing foods that won't kill us to driving safely, investing in one career and hobby over another, or picking a mating partner.
    - peteforde 4y ago
      It'd be very hard for me to disagree with the spirit of your reply more than I do. Creating opportunities for people to gamble - new casinos, scratch-off tickets, those sad machines you see in bars - all of these are cash generation vehicles that historically have highly negative outcomes for members of the communities they are dropped into. Especially for groups that are already disadvantaged. This isn't academic speculation. As for gambling on every day outcomes - otherwise known as living your life - it's reasonable to say that one of the fundamental measures of progress as a species and a society is our distance from accidentally eating poisoned food, dangerous driving, a lack of opportunity and self-determination, and being forced to accept bad partners. In other words, the more we remove gambling, the better our lives become.
      - dtagames 4y ago

jeffbee 4y ago

The entire world runs on third parties and trust. It works.

exdsq 4y ago
We don’t know each other - how would we trade or bet or do something that requires trusting each other? For example what would be your current solution to have a $10 bet on the outcome of a sports game tomorrow, between me and you?
- djur 4y ago
  Why is that useful to do?
  - exdsq 4y ago
    You've never said "Hey, I know you're wrong, let's bet on it!" on the internet but never been able to go much further? I know I have! Plus I've definitely wanted to play 1v1 games for a bit of money (video games that is). And many others have, as people solving this issue are raising millions and have thousands of users already :) You may not personally find it useful but it's much harder to solve on the "Web2 stack" than the "Web3 stack" if such descriptions exist.
- chrischen 4y ago
  Silk road, an illegal enterprise, basically ran on trust and reputation (and USPS) and that part of it actually had nothing to do with crypto or blockchains.
- lifeformed 4y ago
  I'd send you $10 by paypal if I win, and expect you to do the same if you lose. If you don't, I'd call you out on these forums. If you wanted to bet more money, I'd use an escrow service. But also, why would I want to bet on sports against a random stranger?
  - exdsq 4y ago

cuteboy19 4y ago

Huge frameworks exist in the crypto world too (huge in relation to the EVM's miniscule capabilities). Frameworkization is a software phenomenon that is orthogonal to trust or anything like that

exdsq 4y ago
But if an abstraction exists that makes things much simpler to work with, maybe it's worth considering? Just imagine the code required on-top of digital banking to buy a ticket to a gig from me online. Those companies that manage this charge huge fees, have huge teams, and it's all sorts of complex. Approaching it from a Web3/NFT standpoint, you mint a series of tickets to your gig. You sell those tickets to people for crypto in a single atomic transaction. Metadata says it's a resellable ticket? Then those people who bought it can sell it to others too! Skeptical it's an authentic ticket? Check if it was minted by the band. Skeptical it's not resellable? Check the meta data. Skeptical they won't send you the genuine ticket? Atomic txs and NFTs mean it's one single tx - a gig ticket for some money. Want to make resellable tickets but you want 5% of the resale? Add a creator rule to the token. Want to check people have valid tickets at the gig? QR code that reads a wallet for a token from the sent of minted tokens. These things that right now span multiple businesses, have multiple fees, constant fraud, are slow, and require signing up in multiple places are literally free with crypto. It's just part of the technology. I think that's pretty cool and has some use cases in an increasingly digital world.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  NFTs as tickets have a fundamental flaw: it is a decentralized front end to a centralized backend. Ultimately there is only one person in full control: the organizer of the event. So we can easily dismiss all of the claims you made because all these things can be done more easily via non blockchain solutions.

Bancakes 4y ago

I don't want trust. I want to download my favorite html files over https. Why ruin the internet further?