3 ms·

I wonder how much of this is a problem with Boeing in particular. If someone squinted at Airbus with the same scrutiny, would they find similar problems?

atoav 5y ago
I had some contact with Airbus engineers, and none of them complained about their managment, which might be an i dicator. But the sample size is small..
- ggm 5y ago
  Because of the end of the 380, Airbus will be shedding staff at some point. If enough of them are disaffected, some of the NDA knowledge will leak. Sure, you have to discount sour grapes, but this is also true of the ex-Boeing engineers who are backfilling our belief in the corporate failure there. I don't think there is an elephant in the room, but there's potential for an unknown problem, sure. One way to understand the risk might be to do the differential on each companies commercial and military product, and its failure rate: the mil stuff has different pricing, and might have different 'six sigma' type rules around things because it has to manage being flown in much more variant constraints: bigger envelope, more risk. If they can do it "better" for mil spec, and don't do it better for commercial, then something is bust in the culture.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Airbus is hiring, actually. I know periods when Airbus had hiring freezes. I cannot remember a time were they reduced internal workforce in the last 20 years, despite sharp drops in their defense business. Also, Europe doesn't have US-style NDAs. >> One way to understand the risk might be Don't assume.
    - ggm 5y ago
      I don't understand don't assume I certainly don't assume, I hypothesised. Europe certainly does have nda. Not like the US I agree but people are bound by confidentiality agreements enforced in contracts all the time. Airbus cut 15,000 Jobs internationally in 2020. German unions forced them to halt layoffs in the EU until 2023
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Ha, I totally forgot about those cuts. Thanks for reminding me!

atoav 5y ago

I had some contact with Airbus engineers, and none of them complained about their managment, which might be an i dicator. But the sample size is small..

ggm 5y ago
Because of the end of the 380, Airbus will be shedding staff at some point. If enough of them are disaffected, some of the NDA knowledge will leak. Sure, you have to discount sour grapes, but this is also true of the ex-Boeing engineers who are backfilling our belief in the corporate failure there. I don't think there is an elephant in the room, but there's potential for an unknown problem, sure. One way to understand the risk might be to do the differential on each companies commercial and military product, and its failure rate: the mil stuff has different pricing, and might have different 'six sigma' type rules around things because it has to manage being flown in much more variant constraints: bigger envelope, more risk. If they can do it "better" for mil spec, and don't do it better for commercial, then something is bust in the culture.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Airbus is hiring, actually. I know periods when Airbus had hiring freezes. I cannot remember a time were they reduced internal workforce in the last 20 years, despite sharp drops in their defense business. Also, Europe doesn't have US-style NDAs. >> One way to understand the risk might be Don't assume.
  - ggm 5y ago
    I don't understand don't assume I certainly don't assume, I hypothesised. Europe certainly does have nda. Not like the US I agree but people are bound by confidentiality agreements enforced in contracts all the time. Airbus cut 15,000 Jobs internationally in 2020. German unions forced them to halt layoffs in the EU until 2023
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Ha, I totally forgot about those cuts. Thanks for reminding me!