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This thread is such a train wreck. Just admit you hate Apple and it doesn't matter what they do, you will find a way to make it a bad thing. Some of the compl

This thread is such a train wreck. Just admit you hate Apple and it doesn't matter what they do, you will find a way to make it a bad thing. Some of the complaints here are just hilarious. What kind of equivalent program does Google offer for Pixels?

tempnow987 5y ago
Or any of the asian phone co's? Much less their support horizons (horrible). Ignoring the bloatware they ship with of course (not all but many).
user_7832 5y ago
One company doing a slightly less shitty thing doesn't make it not shitty. > Just admit you hate Apple I do. I also hate Google (QC issues), Samsung (too many to type out), Motorola/Lenovo (everything from cost cutting to poor updates), Asus (questionable bootloader relocking restrictions), Sony (bootloader unlocking purposely gimping cameras), modern Nokia (no unlocking at all), Microsoft (everything with Nokia/Steve Ballmer)... does that help? I hate everyone to different degrees for different reasons. Ohh.. btw there's a good bit of suspicion that Apple's efforts are just greenwashing/its right to repair equivalent. Please see Louis Rossman's channel for more info. He makes a living off repairing Apple hardware (mainly Macs).
- nimbius 5y ago
  i agree with this sentiment. to distil the comments into brand allegiance is an unfortunate mistake, as what most people are honestly trying to express is a seemingly unilateral consensus against the wholesale commodification and privatization of the experience of ownership. At best Apple is taking a well read treatise from Redmond and 'Embracing' a competition to their revenue stream. to put it another way, the cattle are free to graze on grass or grain, so long as they remain to chew the cud on Cooks farm.
- blahblarblar 5y ago
  Dude, you ok? That’s a lot of hate to be carrying around all the time, can’t be all that fun.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    I share the sentiment, and think we’re not ok. We’d all be happier if we just gave up on all our hopes, but I also feel it’s important to keep acknowledging shitty things are still shitty.
  - user_7832 5y ago
    Absolutely not. And I hope and intend to (be able to) change that.
    - ki85squared 5y ago
      I feel you. It's so tempting to reject practically every large company because of their missteps, but time heals all wounds.
- iakh 5y ago
  What's a quality brand you're recommend?
  - user_7832 5y ago
    Realistically any brand can be okay as long as a) you don't get the short straw of QC [1], and b) you know what you're getting into (and why). When it comes to phones, the only "true" manufacturer that is repairable and open is fairphone - and they too got mired in controversy over their last phone [2] With that said, truth is a lot of these cos like locking down their phones, and if you're looking for a Libre-free experience, I'd recommend a Pixel. I myself use a Pixel 5 (it was the last flagship Pixel with an off the shelf chip... Tensor has tons of bugs apparently). The 5a is also out and fairly similar. My second choice would be Xiaomi, but specifically either their Mi flagships (where there's almost no cost cutting), or Redmi which are very budget and also value for money. I'd highly recommend flashing the Mi-EU ROM if you can, and custom ROMs are fortunately fairly common. Avoid the A series for weird bugs. Beyond this unfortunately it gets tougher. Older OnePlus were decent but recent phones aren't. Samsungs can be fantastic if you're cool with an ecosystem that's nearly as locked in as Apple's with nowhere as much of adoption. (Quick edit addition - for laptops Framework is decent but I'd honestly recommend spinning up a cyberdeck/an Intel NUC with a type C powerbank, portable monitor and BT mouse/Keyboard. Not convenient, sure, but unlikely to fail and easy to fix if failed. Commerical laptops that don't have shitty hinges? Maybe ThinkPads, perhaps Dell Latitude and perhaps Panasonic Toughbooks. HP ProBooks can be okay but HP can burn in hell for all I care. I legitimately hate them more than Apple (which isn't an easy task), but that story's for another day.) If you want to continue this conversation please let me know, I'd recommend another platform (for ease of typing/messaging). 1 - apparently Lenovo at one point realized it was cheaper to RMA ThinkPads than to QC them (as per what I read on r/Thinkpad). What fun (if it's actual, which, given Lenovo, is quite probable). 2 - because they dropped the headphone jack conveniently as the released wireless earbuds. Yes, waterproof headphone jacks are a thing even on budget phones like the 2015 Moto G3 (~$300?)
    - chemmail 5y ago
      For Android, it is hard to beat a good Samsung Galaxy. I fix a ton of my friends old Galaxies. I tell them not worth it because the screens are so expensive. But its always for their mom or something who really like the Galaxy and they upgraded them with some other brand of Android, Moto, LG, even low end Samsung and after a few months just can't take it anymore.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  I would echo this, with a similar thing: I hate all operating systems equally. Not trying to be negative exceeding how much I ought to be. But given that, I will use them.
- ImprovedSilence 5y ago
  I sense an imposter, you didn't mention Meta or Twitter. Any self respecting hater would never leave those two out!
dubswithus 5y ago
Having the battery replaced in a Pixel means Google will wipe your phone. I have better things to do than setup my phone again.
dvt 5y ago
Honestly, I used to hate Apple too. Not sure why, it just seemed like more of a glitzy "fashion statement" than a technical innovation. Maybe this was fueled by my own insecurities (I grew up poor), but boy, was I wrong. After dealing with PC laptops for more than a decade (my first laptop was when I was 19), I finally switched to a MacBook Pro last year and could not be happier. I've had "top" PC products in the past: Razer, X1 Carbon, etc, etc. None even remotely come close in battery life, performance, ease of use, or support. I switched to Apple phones around 6 years ago, and it's the same story. I still miss my HTC One, but other than that one phone, nothing compares to my iPhone.
- dubswithus 5y ago
  When I was in grade school kids bullied you for being an Apple user. Also, people were constantly telling you Apple is for education and there are more applications for windows. Things have changed?
  - palata 5y ago
    For one, most people now spend most of their time in their browser or in a hidden browser (ahem, Electron?). So unless you want something specific (video games, a Windows desktop app, ...), I think they just both work. I'm guessing even Linux on a mac is probably okay (since so many people have the exact same hardware as you...)
  - chemmail 5y ago
    Yes, today if you text someone not using iphone, you will have a green bubble which means you are practically a pariah and get made fun of. In fact my circle almost does the same, but more jokingly because you make fun of each other cars at the older ages lol.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  I am not sure how this relates to Apple’s repair practices and other business stances ? To put in context, people probably had the same views around 1994~2000 as Windows was the only platform providing a reasonable GUI, wide hardware support, a vibrant app ecosystem and support from any computer shop at any price point you could wish for. I still think people hating Microsoft weren’t wrong per se, and we can look at the bright side as well as the shitty side at the same time.
pessimizer 5y ago
Just because people criticize Apple doesn't mean they love Google. This isn't football.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I didn't bring up Google for any reason other than they're the obvious alternative. I guess I could have said Samsung, but I tend to forget about them. But the question applies to them, too. My observation was simply that Apple gets so much hate that doesn't seem to be good faith criticism. It's just hardcore antifanboyism.
  - ErikVandeWater 5y ago
    Criticism for Apple is proportional to the effort the company makes to appear greener, faster, smarter, more diverse, etc. than its competitors. It's arguably a direct response to the company's marketing, regardless of whether that marketing creates many fanboys that believe it. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisugly/comments/tiihwr/corrected_apple_m1_ultra_performace/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisugly/comments/tiihwr/correcte... Probably almost no fanboys remember this deceptive chart that suggests the M1 is equally powerful as the highest end discrete GPU, while still using 200 Watts less power. But Apple haters like me do. BTW I'm open to hating on other companies in the same industry, like Google for providing bad service with Google Fi and their smartphone line.
cft 5y ago
Pixel Repair Program: https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/pixel-phone-repairs/ https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/...
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Coming soon, so they either made this choice because of the same underlying reasons driving Apple, or because Apple did it first. Either line of reasoning has precedent to back it up.
Aaron2222 5y ago
https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/pixel-phone-repairs/ https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/...
footlose_3815 5y ago
[dead]
neop1x 5y ago
>> Just admit you hate Apple and it doesn't matter what they do, you will find a way to make it a bad thing. I am not an Apple fan and I welcome this self-repair initiative and I think their service manuals are quite nicely written but I worry that this may just be their another PR stunt: 1. many repairs can't be done without their direct assistance: "A System Configuration step may be required at the end of your repair. System Configuration is a postrepair software tool that completes the repair for genuine Apple parts. The repair manual will indicate if System Configuration is required. You will need to contact the Self Service Repair Store support team by chat or phone to initiate System Configuration.". They are not providing this software. 2. nothing said about logic board (yet?) and it is not uncommon that logic board goes bad (and also no component-level repair, especially USB connectors which often go bad but component-level repair is not really something I would expect at this time) 3. older devices not covered so the situation is unchanged for those Maybe that will improve over time, though.

tempnow987 5y ago

Or any of the asian phone co's? Much less their support horizons (horrible). Ignoring the bloatware they ship with of course (not all but many).

user_7832 5y ago

One company doing a slightly less shitty thing doesn't make it not shitty. > Just admit you hate Apple I do. I also hate Google (QC issues), Samsung (too many to type out), Motorola/Lenovo (everything from cost cutting to poor updates), Asus (questionable bootloader relocking restrictions), Sony (bootloader unlocking purposely gimping cameras), modern Nokia (no unlocking at all), Microsoft (everything with Nokia/Steve Ballmer)... does that help? I hate everyone to different degrees for different reasons. Ohh.. btw there's a good bit of suspicion that Apple's efforts are just greenwashing/its right to repair equivalent. Please see Louis Rossman's channel for more info. He makes a living off repairing Apple hardware (mainly Macs).

nimbius 5y ago
i agree with this sentiment. to distil the comments into brand allegiance is an unfortunate mistake, as what most people are honestly trying to express is a seemingly unilateral consensus against the wholesale commodification and privatization of the experience of ownership. At best Apple is taking a well read treatise from Redmond and 'Embracing' a competition to their revenue stream. to put it another way, the cattle are free to graze on grass or grain, so long as they remain to chew the cud on Cooks farm.
blahblarblar 5y ago
Dude, you ok? That’s a lot of hate to be carrying around all the time, can’t be all that fun.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  I share the sentiment, and think we’re not ok. We’d all be happier if we just gave up on all our hopes, but I also feel it’s important to keep acknowledging shitty things are still shitty.
- user_7832 5y ago
  Absolutely not. And I hope and intend to (be able to) change that.
  - ki85squared 5y ago
    I feel you. It's so tempting to reject practically every large company because of their missteps, but time heals all wounds.
iakh 5y ago
What's a quality brand you're recommend?
- user_7832 5y ago
  Realistically any brand can be okay as long as a) you don't get the short straw of QC [1], and b) you know what you're getting into (and why). When it comes to phones, the only "true" manufacturer that is repairable and open is fairphone - and they too got mired in controversy over their last phone [2] With that said, truth is a lot of these cos like locking down their phones, and if you're looking for a Libre-free experience, I'd recommend a Pixel. I myself use a Pixel 5 (it was the last flagship Pixel with an off the shelf chip... Tensor has tons of bugs apparently). The 5a is also out and fairly similar. My second choice would be Xiaomi, but specifically either their Mi flagships (where there's almost no cost cutting), or Redmi which are very budget and also value for money. I'd highly recommend flashing the Mi-EU ROM if you can, and custom ROMs are fortunately fairly common. Avoid the A series for weird bugs. Beyond this unfortunately it gets tougher. Older OnePlus were decent but recent phones aren't. Samsungs can be fantastic if you're cool with an ecosystem that's nearly as locked in as Apple's with nowhere as much of adoption. (Quick edit addition - for laptops Framework is decent but I'd honestly recommend spinning up a cyberdeck/an Intel NUC with a type C powerbank, portable monitor and BT mouse/Keyboard. Not convenient, sure, but unlikely to fail and easy to fix if failed. Commerical laptops that don't have shitty hinges? Maybe ThinkPads, perhaps Dell Latitude and perhaps Panasonic Toughbooks. HP ProBooks can be okay but HP can burn in hell for all I care. I legitimately hate them more than Apple (which isn't an easy task), but that story's for another day.) If you want to continue this conversation please let me know, I'd recommend another platform (for ease of typing/messaging). 1 - apparently Lenovo at one point realized it was cheaper to RMA ThinkPads than to QC them (as per what I read on r/Thinkpad). What fun (if it's actual, which, given Lenovo, is quite probable). 2 - because they dropped the headphone jack conveniently as the released wireless earbuds. Yes, waterproof headphone jacks are a thing even on budget phones like the 2015 Moto G3 (~$300?)
  - chemmail 5y ago
    For Android, it is hard to beat a good Samsung Galaxy. I fix a ton of my friends old Galaxies. I tell them not worth it because the screens are so expensive. But its always for their mom or something who really like the Galaxy and they upgraded them with some other brand of Android, Moto, LG, even low end Samsung and after a few months just can't take it anymore.
daniel-cussen 5y ago
I would echo this, with a similar thing: I hate all operating systems equally. Not trying to be negative exceeding how much I ought to be. But given that, I will use them.
ImprovedSilence 5y ago
I sense an imposter, you didn't mention Meta or Twitter. Any self respecting hater would never leave those two out!

dubswithus 5y ago

Having the battery replaced in a Pixel means Google will wipe your phone. I have better things to do than setup my phone again.

dvt 5y ago

Honestly, I used to hate Apple too. Not sure why, it just seemed like more of a glitzy "fashion statement" than a technical innovation. Maybe this was fueled by my own insecurities (I grew up poor), but boy, was I wrong. After dealing with PC laptops for more than a decade (my first laptop was when I was 19), I finally switched to a MacBook Pro last year and could not be happier. I've had "top" PC products in the past: Razer, X1 Carbon, etc, etc. None even remotely come close in battery life, performance, ease of use, or support. I switched to Apple phones around 6 years ago, and it's the same story. I still miss my HTC One, but other than that one phone, nothing compares to my iPhone.

dubswithus 5y ago
When I was in grade school kids bullied you for being an Apple user. Also, people were constantly telling you Apple is for education and there are more applications for windows. Things have changed?
- palata 5y ago
  For one, most people now spend most of their time in their browser or in a hidden browser (ahem, Electron?). So unless you want something specific (video games, a Windows desktop app, ...), I think they just both work. I'm guessing even Linux on a mac is probably okay (since so many people have the exact same hardware as you...)
- chemmail 5y ago
  Yes, today if you text someone not using iphone, you will have a green bubble which means you are practically a pariah and get made fun of. In fact my circle almost does the same, but more jokingly because you make fun of each other cars at the older ages lol.
makeitdouble 5y ago
I am not sure how this relates to Apple’s repair practices and other business stances ? To put in context, people probably had the same views around 1994~2000 as Windows was the only platform providing a reasonable GUI, wide hardware support, a vibrant app ecosystem and support from any computer shop at any price point you could wish for. I still think people hating Microsoft weren’t wrong per se, and we can look at the bright side as well as the shitty side at the same time.

pessimizer 5y ago

Just because people criticize Apple doesn't mean they love Google. This isn't football.

rootusrootus 5y ago
I didn't bring up Google for any reason other than they're the obvious alternative. I guess I could have said Samsung, but I tend to forget about them. But the question applies to them, too. My observation was simply that Apple gets so much hate that doesn't seem to be good faith criticism. It's just hardcore antifanboyism.
- ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  Criticism for Apple is proportional to the effort the company makes to appear greener, faster, smarter, more diverse, etc. than its competitors. It's arguably a direct response to the company's marketing, regardless of whether that marketing creates many fanboys that believe it. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisugly/comments/tiihwr/corrected_apple_m1_ultra_performace/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisugly/comments/tiihwr/correcte... Probably almost no fanboys remember this deceptive chart that suggests the M1 is equally powerful as the highest end discrete GPU, while still using 200 Watts less power. But Apple haters like me do. BTW I'm open to hating on other companies in the same industry, like Google for providing bad service with Google Fi and their smartphone line.

cft 5y ago

Pixel Repair Program: https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/pixel-phone-repairs/ https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/...

rootusrootus 5y ago
Coming soon, so they either made this choice because of the same underlying reasons driving Apple, or because Apple did it first. Either line of reasoning has precedent to back it up.

Aaron2222 5y ago

https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/pixel-phone-repairs/ https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sustainability/...

footlose_3815 5y ago

[dead]

neop1x 5y ago

>> Just admit you hate Apple and it doesn't matter what they do, you will find a way to make it a bad thing. I am not an Apple fan and I welcome this self-repair initiative and I think their service manuals are quite nicely written but I worry that this may just be their another PR stunt: 1. many repairs can't be done without their direct assistance: "A System Configuration step may be required at the end of your repair. System Configuration is a postrepair software tool that completes the repair for genuine Apple parts. The repair manual will indicate if System Configuration is required. You will need to contact the Self Service Repair Store support team by chat or phone to initiate System Configuration.". They are not providing this software. 2. nothing said about logic board (yet?) and it is not uncommon that logic board goes bad (and also no component-level repair, especially USB connectors which often go bad but component-level repair is not really something I would expect at this time) 3. older devices not covered so the situation is unchanged for those Maybe that will improve over time, though.