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I wish I knew what the deal is with coffee and businesses. I worked at one F500 company that eliminated the coffee for cost-saving reasons. The coffee was terr

I wish I knew what the deal is with coffee and businesses. I worked at one F500 company that eliminated the coffee for cost-saving reasons. The coffee was terrible, so I didn't exactly cry, but for this company it couldn't have cost more than, maybe, a million or so a year. I mean, I wouldn't want to write the check myself, but as a budgetary line-item, it would have been a rounding error. I've worked at an office that dumped their Bunn drip machine that had worked since 1837 for a Keurig, because they didn't like the big twice-yearly bills for the coffee service. The Keurig has been replaced twice, and the cups fill the waste bin, and I guarantee they're paying more for coffee now. It's really weird how people get hung up on the Coffee Question. I assume they're all tea drinkers and are being spiteful.

selfmodruntime 5y ago
What's far more likely is that compared to other common items on the budget sheets, coffee expenses are pretty transparent and seem to be exorbitantly high for being "just coffee", so it's an easy target to eliminate
- sgerenser 5y ago
  Yep, just like the color of the bike shed is something everyone understands and is easy to argue about.
compiler-guy 5y ago
Steve Blank has a great essay on this. https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-earth-%E2%80%93-soda%E2%80%99s-are-no-longer-free/ https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear...
dsr_ 5y ago
It's a classic problem of not considering consequences. Good coffee is barely more expensive than terrible coffee. Good tea is significantly more expensive than terrible tea, but few tea drinkers quaff it in the quantities that dedicated coffee-fiends demand. The overall cost of providing coffee, tea and a few other beverages is quite small compared to any other benefit of working in an office. The cost of not having good coffee available for cheap or free is that people take coffee breaks that last much much longer, and nobody counts that time. The secondary consequence is that they don't spend the coffee break time talking with coworkers in a convivial surrounding, so they don't cross-pollinate ideas and share information. I've worked for the same company for 18 years now, and it's not because of the excellent coffee service. The excellent coffee service is a result of being a company I like to work at.
mindcrime 5y ago
Yeah, my thing is, I don't so much care about free coffee in and of itself. I can afford coffee. But it's the signal that it sends. To me, eliminating free coffee (and sodas, etc., per the @sgblank essay that @compiler-guy linked to) communicates that one or both of two things is true: 1. We're in really dire financial straits and you should all probably start looking for an exit while you can. 2. The company doesn't give a shit about the morale of the staff, and will therefore soon be in dire financial straits if it is not already, and you should all probably start looking for an exit while you can. It's just a really, really bad look, IMO. As managers are so fond of saying... "it's bad optics."
- Meai 5y ago
  I think it also feels off because you generally drink coffee to get more work done and stay alert. Especially while you are at work. So it's the strangest place to start saving money at.
greedo 5y ago
It's the same with janitorial services. When I first started, I was amazed at how clean the offices were. I even bragged to my wife after my interview that even the restrooms were spotless! I found out after starting that they had just been remodeled, and given more attention than normal. Now a decade later, the ridiculous cost cutting has turned all the restrooms into disgusting places that are poorly cleaned. Except for the 4th floor. Where the VIPs work. Those restrooms are clean enough to eat off the floor. I was friendly with the cleaning staff (I worked late a lot, and helped the facilities guys with stuff as needed). Turns out that their budget had been cut 25%, so they had to not only cut staff, but they lost all the productive people. So the good leftovers took care of the 4th floor while everyone else got the left side of the Bell curve. They would have been fine (it's janitorial work, not brain surgery), but they weren't given the time to do a good job. Trash cans were infrequently dumped, nothing was dusted, cubicles vacuumed randomly, and windows never cleaned. Except the 4th floor. Visiting it was like going to a penthouse suite in Vegas. Eventually they outsourced it completely to a company that cut corners to squeeze out a profit. The same thing happened with our Security guards. They initially were company employees, had dedication and did a competent job. Then they were all replaced by a contractor. So now we have random guards who barely do anything. I'm sure someone hit a KPI for saving the company money, but these nickel and dime actions make everyone question the company's commitment to their employees. If you won't provide clean restroom facilities, where else are you skimping?
- bombcar 5y ago
  Quick - post a “restroom interview” blog and get all the attention. The restrooms for the employees at a company says a lot about the company.
  - greedo 5y ago
    Back when the App Store was a goldmine, I contemplated creating an app that would help people find public restrooms. I knew that mothers with babies were very sensitive about cleanliness and good changing tables etc, so this would be a "yelp for bathrooms." I mocked up the UI etc, and gave it a good thought and then did some schema work etc. Then I realized that all the users would be uploading the worst pictures imaginable; and we all know how bad bathrooms can be. There would be no way to moderate that type of thing, and I flushed the idea...

selfmodruntime 5y ago

What's far more likely is that compared to other common items on the budget sheets, coffee expenses are pretty transparent and seem to be exorbitantly high for being "just coffee", so it's an easy target to eliminate

sgerenser 5y ago
Yep, just like the color of the bike shed is something everyone understands and is easy to argue about.

compiler-guy 5y ago

Steve Blank has a great essay on this. https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-earth-%E2%80%93-soda%E2%80%99s-are-no-longer-free/ https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear...

dsr_ 5y ago

It's a classic problem of not considering consequences. Good coffee is barely more expensive than terrible coffee. Good tea is significantly more expensive than terrible tea, but few tea drinkers quaff it in the quantities that dedicated coffee-fiends demand. The overall cost of providing coffee, tea and a few other beverages is quite small compared to any other benefit of working in an office. The cost of not having good coffee available for cheap or free is that people take coffee breaks that last much much longer, and nobody counts that time. The secondary consequence is that they don't spend the coffee break time talking with coworkers in a convivial surrounding, so they don't cross-pollinate ideas and share information. I've worked for the same company for 18 years now, and it's not because of the excellent coffee service. The excellent coffee service is a result of being a company I like to work at.

mindcrime 5y ago

Yeah, my thing is, I don't so much care about free coffee in and of itself. I can afford coffee. But it's the signal that it sends. To me, eliminating free coffee (and sodas, etc., per the @sgblank essay that @compiler-guy linked to) communicates that one or both of two things is true: 1. We're in really dire financial straits and you should all probably start looking for an exit while you can. 2. The company doesn't give a shit about the morale of the staff, and will therefore soon be in dire financial straits if it is not already, and you should all probably start looking for an exit while you can. It's just a really, really bad look, IMO. As managers are so fond of saying... "it's bad optics."

Meai 5y ago
I think it also feels off because you generally drink coffee to get more work done and stay alert. Especially while you are at work. So it's the strangest place to start saving money at.

greedo 5y ago

It's the same with janitorial services. When I first started, I was amazed at how clean the offices were. I even bragged to my wife after my interview that even the restrooms were spotless! I found out after starting that they had just been remodeled, and given more attention than normal. Now a decade later, the ridiculous cost cutting has turned all the restrooms into disgusting places that are poorly cleaned. Except for the 4th floor. Where the VIPs work. Those restrooms are clean enough to eat off the floor. I was friendly with the cleaning staff (I worked late a lot, and helped the facilities guys with stuff as needed). Turns out that their budget had been cut 25%, so they had to not only cut staff, but they lost all the productive people. So the good leftovers took care of the 4th floor while everyone else got the left side of the Bell curve. They would have been fine (it's janitorial work, not brain surgery), but they weren't given the time to do a good job. Trash cans were infrequently dumped, nothing was dusted, cubicles vacuumed randomly, and windows never cleaned. Except the 4th floor. Visiting it was like going to a penthouse suite in Vegas. Eventually they outsourced it completely to a company that cut corners to squeeze out a profit. The same thing happened with our Security guards. They initially were company employees, had dedication and did a competent job. Then they were all replaced by a contractor. So now we have random guards who barely do anything. I'm sure someone hit a KPI for saving the company money, but these nickel and dime actions make everyone question the company's commitment to their employees. If you won't provide clean restroom facilities, where else are you skimping?

bombcar 5y ago
Quick - post a “restroom interview” blog and get all the attention. The restrooms for the employees at a company says a lot about the company.
- greedo 5y ago
  Back when the App Store was a goldmine, I contemplated creating an app that would help people find public restrooms. I knew that mothers with babies were very sensitive about cleanliness and good changing tables etc, so this would be a "yelp for bathrooms." I mocked up the UI etc, and gave it a good thought and then did some schema work etc. Then I realized that all the users would be uploading the worst pictures imaginable; and we all know how bad bathrooms can be. There would be no way to moderate that type of thing, and I flushed the idea...