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> There are bootcamps that are much higher quality than this. imo... bootcamps are much higher quality than most universities. I've interviewed at least 1000 e

> There are bootcamps that are much higher quality than this. imo... bootcamps are much higher quality than most universities. I've interviewed at least 1000 engineers at this point, and I've interviewed a ton of top tier university graduates that are essentially useless and need to be trained up, but most bootcamp graduates can "hit the ground running" (but lack foundational skills). The idea that software engineering is some academic endeavor is so flawed. It's a trade, and should be taught in trade schools. (note I'm speaking of developers / software engineers. If you want to do computer research (etc) then I lean toward academic backgrounds)

deaddodo 5y ago
There is no better. It's two different types of education. Bootcamps are just a refined version of the "teach yourself" crowd and there's nothing wrong with that. If you're looking for engineers that can code a fullstack application in Typescript/React or a Backend/Front architecture in Python / Go / etc with a JSON API + a swift frontend; bootcampers will probably have a leg up. After all, they learned the specific knowledge to get them there. If you need an engineer that can do audio dsp programming, embedded bare metal and/or firmware bootstrapping + development, OS design, compiler/VM design, etc; you'd be hard-pressed to find a bootcamper that could do the job without extensive training, let alone hit the ground running. But ultimately, it's a moot point. After about 4 years, if they care more about the field than just as "a job" or "to pay bills" (e.g., they have a genuine interest and drive), either one will have enough experience to branch out and fill in their gaps.
- triyambakam 5y ago
  > If you need an engineer that can do audio dsp programming, embedded bare metal and/or firmware bootstrapping + development, OS design, compiler/VM design, etc; you'd be hard-pressed to find a bootcamper that could do the job without extensive training Because there are no hardware/embedded bootcamps.
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  I believe there is better. Applied skills like software development should be taught with hands-on education. It's no different than becoming an electrician. You don't go to university to learn that. You go to an apprenticeship program. It is my opinion that computer related trades should follow the format of the more physical trades. ALSO, you typically get PAID for an apprenticeship program. So, my opinion that it is in-fact a better way to learn aside. It's certainly financially superior.

deaddodo 5y ago

There is no better. It's two different types of education. Bootcamps are just a refined version of the "teach yourself" crowd and there's nothing wrong with that. If you're looking for engineers that can code a fullstack application in Typescript/React or a Backend/Front architecture in Python / Go / etc with a JSON API + a swift frontend; bootcampers will probably have a leg up. After all, they learned the specific knowledge to get them there. If you need an engineer that can do audio dsp programming, embedded bare metal and/or firmware bootstrapping + development, OS design, compiler/VM design, etc; you'd be hard-pressed to find a bootcamper that could do the job without extensive training, let alone hit the ground running. But ultimately, it's a moot point. After about 4 years, if they care more about the field than just as "a job" or "to pay bills" (e.g., they have a genuine interest and drive), either one will have enough experience to branch out and fill in their gaps.

triyambakam 5y ago
> If you need an engineer that can do audio dsp programming, embedded bare metal and/or firmware bootstrapping + development, OS design, compiler/VM design, etc; you'd be hard-pressed to find a bootcamper that could do the job without extensive training Because there are no hardware/embedded bootcamps.
itslennysfault 4y ago
I believe there is better. Applied skills like software development should be taught with hands-on education. It's no different than becoming an electrician. You don't go to university to learn that. You go to an apprenticeship program. It is my opinion that computer related trades should follow the format of the more physical trades. ALSO, you typically get PAID for an apprenticeship program. So, my opinion that it is in-fact a better way to learn aside. It's certainly financially superior.