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I worked in an office with a fire hazard coffee pot. One of my coworkers wanted a coffee pot on his desk. He found an automatic drip coffee maker at a garage s

I worked in an office with a fire hazard coffee pot. One of my coworkers wanted a coffee pot on his desk. He found an automatic drip coffee maker at a garage sale. It had a broken switch. Being a frugal engineer, he routed a wire past the switch and just turned it on and off by connecting and disconnecting it from the wall socket. More than once, I was working late and noticed the smell of it burning through the last dregs of the pot because he had forgotten to disconnect it. The first few times, I disconnected it. Finally, I threw it in a garbage can and probably saved the building from an eventual fire. I know it is annoying to have rules, but there are reasons for fire codes and facilities managers. I know too many people like my previous coworker.

pierrebai 5y ago
How does an over-heated pot of glass and plastic catch fire? If coffee-making machine are fire hazard, most homes in the world must be regularly burning. Given that the overwhelming evidence, for example the fact that no house has burned in a large radius around my home, I'd say your and IBM's assessment is wildly off-target.
- mcculley 5y ago
  This was effectively a heating element without a switch. Yes, the risk is low. Still stupid to do it.
- bena 5y ago
  I assume in that bypassing the switch, it also bypassed the automatic shut off. Coffee makers are relatively simple designs. They're basically hotplates with a one way valve underneath for the water. Without the shut off, the thing would just keep getting hotter. And while heated glass will not catch fire, it can shatter violently. And those heated shards can then catch things on fire. And that's outside the fact that just faulty wiring can cause sparks and fire itself.
  - hex4def6 5y ago
    They are simple things, but they don't go critical like you're describing. Simple ones often just have a mechanical bimetal thermostat device that opens / closes around a given temperature (a bit north of 100degC). In addition to that, they have thermal fuses that will blow if the temperature reaches over some threshold (I think 200degC?). My understanding is that they often use a pair of thermal fuses for safety. In this case, you would somehow need to have both thermal fuses fail closed, as well as the thermostat fail closed.
    - bena 5y ago
      But if I'm rewiring the thing to be on while plugged in, do you think I'm following the UL guidelines?
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        The thermal fuses are typically built-into the heating element and are very difficult - if possible at all - to bypass. They are not part of the user-facing switch or whatever timer circuitry there is.
- stonemetal12 5y ago
  In my experience, coffee pot fires happen when there is a small amount of coffee left in the pot. It dries out, leaving a dark residue in the bottom. This residue catches fire.
thomastjeffery 5y ago
This is why rules are often not enough to create a desired outcome. Beaurocracy fails when it doesn't account for human motivation. In this case, the best option would be to involve management or HR, or even facilities management in the positive step of buying a better coffee maker for the office. Failing to provide access to safely brewed good coffee was the bug here.
- mcculley 5y ago
  I completely agree that the incompetence of the organization was greater than the carelessness of my coworker. Regardless, he should not have plugged in a heating element without a switch.
throwaway894345 5y ago
I don't know if this is what you intend to imply, but it sounds like you're justifying the "all coffee makers are fire hazards" rule with an anecdote about a jimmy-rigged coffee maker (which never actually even caught fire, although I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if it would have done). Certainly permitting coffee makers increases the risk of fire above "no coffee makers", but both are in a completely different risk ballpark to "jimmy-rigged coffee makers". I also don't know if coffee makers are expressly forbidden in building codes or if it's just an over-zealous facilities manager policy (and perhaps in either case it's a legacy from a bygone era where these things caught fire more frequently than today).
- mcculley 5y ago
  If I still owned a physical office, I would not want my facilities manager to inspect every coffee pot to determine the risk. I would make sure to provide the caffeine some other way. In that same building there were some desks with fans because it was too hot and space heaters because it was too cold. (I saw this ridiculous waste of electricity in many facilities.) I don't trust most facilities to have good AC, ventilation, or wise inhabitants.
kube-system 5y ago
As long as it wasn't a very old coffee pot, and just the switch was bypassed, it was probably still very safe. Coffee pots that meet UL standards have one or more safety mechanisms, and likely a thermostat on top of that. https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Coffeemakers/CoffeeMakers.html https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Coffeemakers/CoffeeMake...
- mcculley 5y ago
  Because I had to intervene multiple times after it had clearly been heating the pot continuously all day and the smell of burnt coffee was evident on the entire floor, I don't think it had any safety mechanisms remaining, if it ever had any. Worse, I personally watched one person see it as a problem, flip the switch assuming that would fix it, and walk away. I had to point out that the switch was not involved and was just a decoy. That made it even worse from a safety perspective.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    > heating the pot continuously all day and the smell of burnt coffee was evident This is the expected operation of a basic coffee pot without an auto-shutoff timer. It should remain hot indefinitely, and as a result, any remaining coffee inside will start to smell bad. However, there is (from the factory, at least) a thermostat that will regulate the temperature at the normal operational temperature, and thermal safety fuse(s) that will permanently shut off power above the normal temperature but before any components will catch on fire. >I personally watched one person see it as a problem, flip the switch assuming that would fix it, and walk away. True, that probably has enough inherent safety issues regardless of whether it catches fire.
    - mcculley 5y ago
      Yours and other replies have convinced me that the risk is very low. Regardless, I will continue to throw any similarly improvised device in the garbage rather than take the risk.
_Algernon_ 5y ago
And this is why my university has installed those 2 hour timer breakers on all the outlets. lol
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  It’s typically a relay controlled by an occupancy sensor.
nsxwolf 5y ago
So, has anyone here ever, like... worked in a regular office? Not the Apple Mothership or anything like that, just like a small office for a business with like 50 people in it? If you go into the break room in a place like that, you're going to see consumer grade coffee makers. Again and again. They're totally normal.
- mcculley 5y ago
  Most of them are in good working order, UL approved, and not bought at a garage sale and improvised to run continuously. You cannot trust your coworkers to put a heating element on their desk.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bombcar 5y ago
    The temperature of one office I was at had to be adjusted to the point where the secretary wouldn’t bring in a space heater. (We added a vent from the server room over the raised ceiling to blow on her, she was happy, the breakers were happy. )
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    On the other hand, are garage-sale & improvised coffee makers the kind of coffee makers people typically want to bring to the office? I assume the vast majority would be a standard, store-bought coffee makers which should have all the required safety verifications.
    - mcculley 5y ago
      They would likely be safe, but how would you know? Inspect every one? It is easier to ban them.
      - nsxwolf 5y ago
        My point is... I don't think it's very common to ban them. I have visited hundreds of offices with consumer grade coffee makers in the break room. I've seen plenty of the machines that use various "pods" and come with a service contract too, but buying a $20 Mr. Coffee from Walmart is totally a thing in the business world.
Maursault 5y ago
> One of my coworkers wanted a coffee pot on his desk.... I threw it in a garbage can Did you take his red stapler, too, Lumbergh?
- mcculley 5y ago
  No, but I did remove the BitTorrent client that was serving up his entire drive.

pierrebai 5y ago

How does an over-heated pot of glass and plastic catch fire? If coffee-making machine are fire hazard, most homes in the world must be regularly burning. Given that the overwhelming evidence, for example the fact that no house has burned in a large radius around my home, I'd say your and IBM's assessment is wildly off-target.

mcculley 5y ago
This was effectively a heating element without a switch. Yes, the risk is low. Still stupid to do it.
bena 5y ago
I assume in that bypassing the switch, it also bypassed the automatic shut off. Coffee makers are relatively simple designs. They're basically hotplates with a one way valve underneath for the water. Without the shut off, the thing would just keep getting hotter. And while heated glass will not catch fire, it can shatter violently. And those heated shards can then catch things on fire. And that's outside the fact that just faulty wiring can cause sparks and fire itself.
- hex4def6 5y ago
  They are simple things, but they don't go critical like you're describing. Simple ones often just have a mechanical bimetal thermostat device that opens / closes around a given temperature (a bit north of 100degC). In addition to that, they have thermal fuses that will blow if the temperature reaches over some threshold (I think 200degC?). My understanding is that they often use a pair of thermal fuses for safety. In this case, you would somehow need to have both thermal fuses fail closed, as well as the thermostat fail closed.
  - bena 5y ago
    But if I'm rewiring the thing to be on while plugged in, do you think I'm following the UL guidelines?
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      The thermal fuses are typically built-into the heating element and are very difficult - if possible at all - to bypass. They are not part of the user-facing switch or whatever timer circuitry there is.
stonemetal12 5y ago
In my experience, coffee pot fires happen when there is a small amount of coffee left in the pot. It dries out, leaving a dark residue in the bottom. This residue catches fire.

thomastjeffery 5y ago

This is why rules are often not enough to create a desired outcome. Beaurocracy fails when it doesn't account for human motivation. In this case, the best option would be to involve management or HR, or even facilities management in the positive step of buying a better coffee maker for the office. Failing to provide access to safely brewed good coffee was the bug here.

mcculley 5y ago
I completely agree that the incompetence of the organization was greater than the carelessness of my coworker. Regardless, he should not have plugged in a heating element without a switch.

throwaway894345 5y ago

I don't know if this is what you intend to imply, but it sounds like you're justifying the "all coffee makers are fire hazards" rule with an anecdote about a jimmy-rigged coffee maker (which never actually even caught fire, although I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if it would have done). Certainly permitting coffee makers increases the risk of fire above "no coffee makers", but both are in a completely different risk ballpark to "jimmy-rigged coffee makers". I also don't know if coffee makers are expressly forbidden in building codes or if it's just an over-zealous facilities manager policy (and perhaps in either case it's a legacy from a bygone era where these things caught fire more frequently than today).

mcculley 5y ago
If I still owned a physical office, I would not want my facilities manager to inspect every coffee pot to determine the risk. I would make sure to provide the caffeine some other way. In that same building there were some desks with fans because it was too hot and space heaters because it was too cold. (I saw this ridiculous waste of electricity in many facilities.) I don't trust most facilities to have good AC, ventilation, or wise inhabitants.

kube-system 5y ago

As long as it wasn't a very old coffee pot, and just the switch was bypassed, it was probably still very safe. Coffee pots that meet UL standards have one or more safety mechanisms, and likely a thermostat on top of that. https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Coffeemakers/CoffeeMakers.html https://www.electrical-forensics.com/Coffeemakers/CoffeeMake...

mcculley 5y ago
Because I had to intervene multiple times after it had clearly been heating the pot continuously all day and the smell of burnt coffee was evident on the entire floor, I don't think it had any safety mechanisms remaining, if it ever had any. Worse, I personally watched one person see it as a problem, flip the switch assuming that would fix it, and walk away. I had to point out that the switch was not involved and was just a decoy. That made it even worse from a safety perspective.
- kube-system 5y ago
  > heating the pot continuously all day and the smell of burnt coffee was evident This is the expected operation of a basic coffee pot without an auto-shutoff timer. It should remain hot indefinitely, and as a result, any remaining coffee inside will start to smell bad. However, there is (from the factory, at least) a thermostat that will regulate the temperature at the normal operational temperature, and thermal safety fuse(s) that will permanently shut off power above the normal temperature but before any components will catch on fire. >I personally watched one person see it as a problem, flip the switch assuming that would fix it, and walk away. True, that probably has enough inherent safety issues regardless of whether it catches fire.
  - mcculley 5y ago
    Yours and other replies have convinced me that the risk is very low. Regardless, I will continue to throw any similarly improvised device in the garbage rather than take the risk.

_Algernon_ 5y ago

And this is why my university has installed those 2 hour timer breakers on all the outlets. lol

quickthrowman 5y ago
It’s typically a relay controlled by an occupancy sensor.

nsxwolf 5y ago

So, has anyone here ever, like... worked in a regular office? Not the Apple Mothership or anything like that, just like a small office for a business with like 50 people in it? If you go into the break room in a place like that, you're going to see consumer grade coffee makers. Again and again. They're totally normal.

mcculley 5y ago
Most of them are in good working order, UL approved, and not bought at a garage sale and improvised to run continuously. You cannot trust your coworkers to put a heating element on their desk.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bombcar 5y ago
  The temperature of one office I was at had to be adjusted to the point where the secretary wouldn’t bring in a space heater. (We added a vent from the server room over the raised ceiling to blow on her, she was happy, the breakers were happy. )
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  On the other hand, are garage-sale & improvised coffee makers the kind of coffee makers people typically want to bring to the office? I assume the vast majority would be a standard, store-bought coffee makers which should have all the required safety verifications.
  - mcculley 5y ago
    They would likely be safe, but how would you know? Inspect every one? It is easier to ban them.
    - nsxwolf 5y ago
      My point is... I don't think it's very common to ban them. I have visited hundreds of offices with consumer grade coffee makers in the break room. I've seen plenty of the machines that use various "pods" and come with a service contract too, but buying a $20 Mr. Coffee from Walmart is totally a thing in the business world.

Maursault 5y ago

> One of my coworkers wanted a coffee pot on his desk.... I threw it in a garbage can Did you take his red stapler, too, Lumbergh?

mcculley 5y ago
No, but I did remove the BitTorrent client that was serving up his entire drive.