4 ms·

>> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad

by skeeter2020 5y ago

>> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad students have over somebody with only industry is a "piece of paper". I say this as a former grad student who (with a degree) came out of industry. There are plenty of underwhelming students with only academic experience, but if you had industry-credit and a few terms, where would you get the other skills that I'd argue are far more important than practical experience?

wpietri 5y ago
They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
- willhslade 5y ago
  Look, I'm not here to judge, but the Coursera + UC Boulder Electrical Engineering OR Computer Science Masters will take anyone, regardless of degree status. There are also some UK universities that will as well, notable Oxford's Software Engineering. Just my 2 cents doing the research.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - triyambakam 5y ago
    Can you share which CS Masters you mean?
  - wpietri 5y ago
    Could you provide a reference for the UC Boulder option? I've had professor pals look into this on my behalf, and the confident answer they got back is that all US accrediting bodies require a Bachelor's before entering a Master's program. The UK option is interesting. For those curious, here's the bit explaining that they normally expect a Bachelor's but will consider experience: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html And the total cost is ~$50k: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf
ljwojfapsdiof 5y ago
No, he said you can't pursue graduate studies unless you have an undergrad degree. Let's be real, most undergrad programs are trash, and only exist to satisfy industry filters. Wow you learned all these topics on your own but do not have a paper? Too bad!!!! . I respect graduate studies, but I have zero respect for undergrad.
thesuitonym 5y ago
You took it the wrong way--and I get why you did. There is definitely a lot more to university than "a piece of paper." But there is not more to being locked out of working abroad, high-level corporate jobs, and certain fields than a piece of paper. A seriously below average traditional student has access to all of these things, while a high performing, high knowledge person doesn't, simply because they took a different life path.
geraldwhen 5y ago
I disagree. I have worked with great developers who could not be promoted or hired due to missing a few credits in a communications class. They assumed they could just continue working, as they started without a degree and made a career out of it. Then they hit hard walls. Because they never finished out a couple credits in nonsense courses.
chaostheory 5y ago
I don't feel that he's being disingenuous. He just doesn't have the experience or the context. University prestige and your uni social circle can dramatically improve your professional life, but you're not going to know that if you haven't experienced it yourself or personally know anyone who's had the privilege.
- bruce511 5y ago
  For a school-leaving person, sure. The social aspect and (for me) the iron-sharpens-iron part are valuable. For some the network connections are very valuable. But I belive the author was returning to school to get an official qualification after some years of work-experience. (or did I read that wrong?) in that context the ancillaries are less valuable. Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain.
  - chaostheory 5y ago
    > Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain. I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with the author for discounting the value of both the social status and network connections that traditional, elite universities offer.

wpietri 5y ago

They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.

barry-cotter 5y ago
As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
willhslade 5y ago
Look, I'm not here to judge, but the Coursera + UC Boulder Electrical Engineering OR Computer Science Masters will take anyone, regardless of degree status. There are also some UK universities that will as well, notable Oxford's Software Engineering. Just my 2 cents doing the research.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- triyambakam 5y ago
  Can you share which CS Masters you mean?
- wpietri 5y ago
  Could you provide a reference for the UC Boulder option? I've had professor pals look into this on my behalf, and the confident answer they got back is that all US accrediting bodies require a Bachelor's before entering a Master's program. The UK option is interesting. For those curious, here's the bit explaining that they normally expect a Bachelor's but will consider experience: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html And the total cost is ~$50k: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf

ljwojfapsdiof 5y ago

No, he said you can't pursue graduate studies unless you have an undergrad degree. Let's be real, most undergrad programs are trash, and only exist to satisfy industry filters. Wow you learned all these topics on your own but do not have a paper? Too bad!!!! . I respect graduate studies, but I have zero respect for undergrad.

thesuitonym 5y ago

You took it the wrong way--and I get why you did. There is definitely a lot more to university than "a piece of paper." But there is not more to being locked out of working abroad, high-level corporate jobs, and certain fields than a piece of paper. A seriously below average traditional student has access to all of these things, while a high performing, high knowledge person doesn't, simply because they took a different life path.

geraldwhen 5y ago

I disagree. I have worked with great developers who could not be promoted or hired due to missing a few credits in a communications class. They assumed they could just continue working, as they started without a degree and made a career out of it. Then they hit hard walls. Because they never finished out a couple credits in nonsense courses.

chaostheory 5y ago

I don't feel that he's being disingenuous. He just doesn't have the experience or the context. University prestige and your uni social circle can dramatically improve your professional life, but you're not going to know that if you haven't experienced it yourself or personally know anyone who's had the privilege.

bruce511 5y ago
For a school-leaving person, sure. The social aspect and (for me) the iron-sharpens-iron part are valuable. For some the network connections are very valuable. But I belive the author was returning to school to get an official qualification after some years of work-experience. (or did I read that wrong?) in that context the ancillaries are less valuable. Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  > Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain. I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with the author for discounting the value of both the social status and network connections that traditional, elite universities offer.