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For what it’s worth, many people reached out to me after reading the article to thank me for introducing them to the idea that they could earn their missing deg

For what it’s worth, many people reached out to me after reading the article to thank me for introducing them to the idea that they could earn their missing degree in less than 4 years and/or without student debt. Many of them are self-taught developers with decades of experience that can’t move up the corporate ladder, work abroad, or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper.

skeeter2020 4y ago
>> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad students have over somebody with only industry is a "piece of paper". I say this as a former grad student who (with a degree) came out of industry. There are plenty of underwhelming students with only academic experience, but if you had industry-credit and a few terms, where would you get the other skills that I'd argue are far more important than practical experience?
- wpietri 4y ago
  They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
  - willhslade 4y ago
    Look, I'm not here to judge, but the Coursera + UC Boulder Electrical Engineering OR Computer Science Masters will take anyone, regardless of degree status. There are also some UK universities that will as well, notable Oxford's Software Engineering. Just my 2 cents doing the research.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - triyambakam 4y ago
      Can you share which CS Masters you mean?
    - wpietri 4y ago
      Could you provide a reference for the UC Boulder option? I've had professor pals look into this on my behalf, and the confident answer they got back is that all US accrediting bodies require a Bachelor's before entering a Master's program. The UK option is interesting. For those curious, here's the bit explaining that they normally expect a Bachelor's but will consider experience: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html And the total cost is ~$50k: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf
- ljwojfapsdiof 4y ago
  No, he said you can't pursue graduate studies unless you have an undergrad degree. Let's be real, most undergrad programs are trash, and only exist to satisfy industry filters. Wow you learned all these topics on your own but do not have a paper? Too bad!!!! . I respect graduate studies, but I have zero respect for undergrad.
- thesuitonym 4y ago
  You took it the wrong way--and I get why you did. There is definitely a lot more to university than "a piece of paper." But there is not more to being locked out of working abroad, high-level corporate jobs, and certain fields than a piece of paper. A seriously below average traditional student has access to all of these things, while a high performing, high knowledge person doesn't, simply because they took a different life path.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  I disagree. I have worked with great developers who could not be promoted or hired due to missing a few credits in a communications class. They assumed they could just continue working, as they started without a degree and made a career out of it. Then they hit hard walls. Because they never finished out a couple credits in nonsense courses.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  I don't feel that he's being disingenuous. He just doesn't have the experience or the context. University prestige and your uni social circle can dramatically improve your professional life, but you're not going to know that if you haven't experienced it yourself or personally know anyone who's had the privilege.
  - bruce511 4y ago
    For a school-leaving person, sure. The social aspect and (for me) the iron-sharpens-iron part are valuable. For some the network connections are very valuable. But I belive the author was returning to school to get an official qualification after some years of work-experience. (or did I read that wrong?) in that context the ancillaries are less valuable. Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      > Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain. I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with the author for discounting the value of both the social status and network connections that traditional, elite universities offer.
VMtest 4y ago
I checked the admission page but it doesn't mention whether people outside of US/EU can apply or not
- VMtest 4y ago
  Correction: it doesn't mention whether people outside of US/*Canada* can apply or not
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  You cannot study outside of the US or enroll as a non-US citizen at WGU.

skeeter2020 4y ago

>> or pursue graduate studies because they lack this important piece of paper. It's pretty disingenious to imply the only thing traditional degree-holding grad students have over somebody with only industry is a "piece of paper". I say this as a former grad student who (with a degree) came out of industry. There are plenty of underwhelming students with only academic experience, but if you had industry-credit and a few terms, where would you get the other skills that I'd argue are far more important than practical experience?

wpietri 4y ago
They did not imply that. They just said the piece of paper was a barrier to other things they wanted to do. That's the situation I'm in, and somebody recently suggested I check out WGU. I was thinking of doing a Master's degree, and it is an absolute bedrock requirement everywhere I've looked that you have a Bachelor's to apply to the Master's program. Would I get more out of spending 8 years doing a BS part time in the traditional way? I'm sure. Am I going to do that just so I can do a Master's? Fuck no. But if I can get the piece of paper in 6 months, that's starting to seem doable.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  As well as the options willhslade mentioned you can also do individual Master’s modules as distance learning with the University of London International Programme and then transfer to the Master’s programme proper.
- willhslade 4y ago
  Look, I'm not here to judge, but the Coursera + UC Boulder Electrical Engineering OR Computer Science Masters will take anyone, regardless of degree status. There are also some UK universities that will as well, notable Oxford's Software Engineering. Just my 2 cents doing the research.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - triyambakam 4y ago
    Can you share which CS Masters you mean?
  - wpietri 4y ago
    Could you provide a reference for the UC Boulder option? I've had professor pals look into this on my behalf, and the confident answer they got back is that all US accrediting bodies require a Bachelor's before entering a Master's program. The UK option is interesting. For those curious, here's the bit explaining that they normally expect a Bachelor's but will consider experience: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/index.html And the total cost is ~$50k: https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/study/Fees_2022-23.pdf
ljwojfapsdiof 4y ago
No, he said you can't pursue graduate studies unless you have an undergrad degree. Let's be real, most undergrad programs are trash, and only exist to satisfy industry filters. Wow you learned all these topics on your own but do not have a paper? Too bad!!!! . I respect graduate studies, but I have zero respect for undergrad.
thesuitonym 4y ago
You took it the wrong way--and I get why you did. There is definitely a lot more to university than "a piece of paper." But there is not more to being locked out of working abroad, high-level corporate jobs, and certain fields than a piece of paper. A seriously below average traditional student has access to all of these things, while a high performing, high knowledge person doesn't, simply because they took a different life path.
geraldwhen 4y ago
I disagree. I have worked with great developers who could not be promoted or hired due to missing a few credits in a communications class. They assumed they could just continue working, as they started without a degree and made a career out of it. Then they hit hard walls. Because they never finished out a couple credits in nonsense courses.
chaostheory 4y ago
I don't feel that he's being disingenuous. He just doesn't have the experience or the context. University prestige and your uni social circle can dramatically improve your professional life, but you're not going to know that if you haven't experienced it yourself or personally know anyone who's had the privilege.
- bruce511 4y ago
  For a school-leaving person, sure. The social aspect and (for me) the iron-sharpens-iron part are valuable. For some the network connections are very valuable. But I belive the author was returning to school to get an official qualification after some years of work-experience. (or did I read that wrong?) in that context the ancillaries are less valuable. Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    > Certainly I think a place that tests knowledge for the purpose of recognizing levels achieved already through work experience is a really valuable part of the education chain. I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with the author for discounting the value of both the social status and network connections that traditional, elite universities offer.

VMtest 4y ago

I checked the admission page but it doesn't mention whether people outside of US/EU can apply or not

VMtest 4y ago
Correction: it doesn't mention whether people outside of US/*Canada* can apply or not
formerkrogemp 4y ago
You cannot study outside of the US or enroll as a non-US citizen at WGU.