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But Europeans park their pensions to markets now as well, the times when new workers paid for old ones are long gone. People don't reproduce enough to keep the

But Europeans park their pensions to markets now as well, the times when new workers paid for old ones are long gone. People don't reproduce enough to keep the system stable.

titzer 4y ago
TBH I don't know if any economic system is stable in the long term. It's something that neither pops out of the mathematics of the universe nor has been selected for and tuned by evolution. We're far, far out on a branch that this planet has likely never seen before. With long life spans and high standard of living, caring for the elderly in societies is a really tough problem. Throughout most of human history, people haven't lived this long, and if they did, they were either of the few tribal elders or taken care of in multi-generation households. The modern individualism and independence assumed today doesn't have a lot of good solutions.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  It's not only that life spans are longer with higher care, it's that society has also hamstrung fertility rates and removed the pyramid-shaped scheme that population levels and society have grown accustomed to supporting for centuries. We're in uncharted territory with an upside-down pyramid. Without immense automation, young labor will be priced very high and deflation will naturally occur without constant inflationary monetary intervention which has other nasty side effects. Imagine society always had 2 young people helping out 1 elderly and just within the last two generations we've flipped to needing 1 young person to help out 2 elderly. That's 4 times the burden.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    We could, as a society, also get rid of bullshit jobs and provide better, meaningful education. Not to mention we could also cut down on waste (fast fashion and similar trends). Both of that will be inevitable (either due to capitalist forces aka costs or because of actual natural disasters), the key question is if politicians will act early enough to be able to influence and guide society through the transformation or if it will be a chaotic, the-strongest-survive transformation.

But Europeans park their pensions to markets now as well, the times when new workers paid for old ones are long gone. People don't reproduce enough to keep the system stable.

titzer 4y ago

TBH I don't know if any economic system is stable in the long term. It's something that neither pops out of the mathematics of the universe nor has been selected for and tuned by evolution. We're far, far out on a branch that this planet has likely never seen before. With long life spans and high standard of living, caring for the elderly in societies is a really tough problem. Throughout most of human history, people haven't lived this long, and if they did, they were either of the few tribal elders or taken care of in multi-generation households. The modern individualism and independence assumed today doesn't have a lot of good solutions.

reducesuffering 4y ago
It's not only that life spans are longer with higher care, it's that society has also hamstrung fertility rates and removed the pyramid-shaped scheme that population levels and society have grown accustomed to supporting for centuries. We're in uncharted territory with an upside-down pyramid. Without immense automation, young labor will be priced very high and deflation will naturally occur without constant inflationary monetary intervention which has other nasty side effects. Imagine society always had 2 young people helping out 1 elderly and just within the last two generations we've flipped to needing 1 young person to help out 2 elderly. That's 4 times the burden.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  We could, as a society, also get rid of bullshit jobs and provide better, meaningful education. Not to mention we could also cut down on waste (fast fashion and similar trends). Both of that will be inevitable (either due to capitalist forces aka costs or because of actual natural disasters), the key question is if politicians will act early enough to be able to influence and guide society through the transformation or if it will be a chaotic, the-strongest-survive transformation.