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They're paid a shit ton more. And because of that, more nurses are quitting to do the travel thing, which worsens the shortage and increases demand for travel n

They're paid a shit ton more. And because of that, more nurses are quitting to do the travel thing, which worsens the shortage and increases demand for travel nurses ;-) never seen an industry fuck itself over so bad. That's really the issue - healthcare has become an industry, not a profession.

joshgel 5y ago
It's really amazing to see travel nurses come back to work at a place they just left. They are now doing the same job as before, are getting paid almost twice as much with better schedules and are working next to people that they know and are friends with. It's honestly surprising that more haven't taken the jump and is really shocking that hospitals aren't doing more to retain critical staff.
- TecoAndJix 5y ago
  The hospitals have been asking Biden to put a stop to it: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/02/1077710203/hospitals-ask-biden-administration-to-help-lower-the-soaring-cost-of-travel-nurs https://www.npr.org/2022/02/02/1077710203/hospitals-ask-bide...
  - pc86 5y ago
    It sounds nurses just need to be paid more, or travel nurses need to be paid less. Equilibrium is probably somewhere between the two extremes. Apropos of nothing but why is the knee jerk reaction "we need executive action to fix this staffing problem?"
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Why would travel nurses need to be paid less?
      - pc86 5y ago
        If wages equalized, it's unlikely they would all equalize to the top of the range. It's more likely to be somewhere in the top quartile or quintile.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Why would they equalize? I assume there is a premium required for not going back to one’s own home everyday.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    I can only react with this face: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/Opo... Help me understand this. Make it make sense... 1. Hospitals pay their nurses $X, which is way too low 2. Nurses quit because they're underpaid and overworked 3. Hospitals have a nurse staffing crisis and so pay travel nurses 2 * $X (or more!) 4. Hospitals are in a panic over the cost of travel nurses, yet instead of paying their nurses more to keep them around and eliminate the need for travel nurses, they ask the government to cap the cost of travel nurses My mind is exploding over the ridiculousness of it.
- zaptheimpaler 5y ago
  Its hilarious that nursing shares this problem with the tech industry and probably with most other industries. Every company is extremely allergic to giving raises and is happy to let their workforce churn constantly. You would think they believe that experience has no value. But on the hiring side, experience is one of the most widely accepted signals of value.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
As you noted at the beginning of your comment, the issue is the pay to quality of life at work ratio being too low.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  AT some point you hit diminishing returns on the pay/QAL ratio. IF the tradeoff is bad at 200k/yr, it wont be better at 225k/yr or 250k/yr
  - t-3 5y ago
    Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement. “Nurses” can be used to mean many things (CNAs, LVNs/LPNs, RNs) but this is specifically RNs, who, make much more than that, generally (median $77.6k/yr) https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/registered-nurses.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/registered-nurses....
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > median $77.6k/yr Given the amount of school a nurse must have, that’s low.
        ejb999 5y ago
        2 years of school to be an RN, 4 for BSN - it's not a lot of school, it's an average amount of school at most.
    - ejb999 5y ago
      >>Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Not even close if you are talking about the USA (and actual nurses, not CNA's or MAs) - starting pay for 2 year RN degrees near me are about 55-65K, and you easily go over 100K in a few years.
BobbyJo 5y ago
The market... finds a way.
- bumby 5y ago
  While technically true, what we're trying to avoid is forcing the market to find a way that may include an interim period of extremely bad outcomes before correcting itself

joshgel 5y ago

It's really amazing to see travel nurses come back to work at a place they just left. They are now doing the same job as before, are getting paid almost twice as much with better schedules and are working next to people that they know and are friends with. It's honestly surprising that more haven't taken the jump and is really shocking that hospitals aren't doing more to retain critical staff.

TecoAndJix 5y ago
The hospitals have been asking Biden to put a stop to it: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/02/1077710203/hospitals-ask-biden-administration-to-help-lower-the-soaring-cost-of-travel-nurs https://www.npr.org/2022/02/02/1077710203/hospitals-ask-bide...
- pc86 5y ago
  It sounds nurses just need to be paid more, or travel nurses need to be paid less. Equilibrium is probably somewhere between the two extremes. Apropos of nothing but why is the knee jerk reaction "we need executive action to fix this staffing problem?"
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Why would travel nurses need to be paid less?
    - pc86 5y ago
      If wages equalized, it's unlikely they would all equalize to the top of the range. It's more likely to be somewhere in the top quartile or quintile.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Why would they equalize? I assume there is a premium required for not going back to one’s own home everyday.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  I can only react with this face: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/Opo... Help me understand this. Make it make sense... 1. Hospitals pay their nurses $X, which is way too low 2. Nurses quit because they're underpaid and overworked 3. Hospitals have a nurse staffing crisis and so pay travel nurses 2 * $X (or more!) 4. Hospitals are in a panic over the cost of travel nurses, yet instead of paying their nurses more to keep them around and eliminate the need for travel nurses, they ask the government to cap the cost of travel nurses My mind is exploding over the ridiculousness of it.
zaptheimpaler 5y ago
Its hilarious that nursing shares this problem with the tech industry and probably with most other industries. Every company is extremely allergic to giving raises and is happy to let their workforce churn constantly. You would think they believe that experience has no value. But on the hiring side, experience is one of the most widely accepted signals of value.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

As you noted at the beginning of your comment, the issue is the pay to quality of life at work ratio being too low.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
AT some point you hit diminishing returns on the pay/QAL ratio. IF the tradeoff is bad at 200k/yr, it wont be better at 225k/yr or 250k/yr
- t-3 5y ago
  Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement. “Nurses” can be used to mean many things (CNAs, LVNs/LPNs, RNs) but this is specifically RNs, who, make much more than that, generally (median $77.6k/yr) https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/registered-nurses.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/registered-nurses....
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > median $77.6k/yr Given the amount of school a nurse must have, that’s low.
      - ejb999 5y ago
        2 years of school to be an RN, 4 for BSN - it's not a lot of school, it's an average amount of school at most.
  - ejb999 5y ago
    >>Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Not even close if you are talking about the USA (and actual nurses, not CNA's or MAs) - starting pay for 2 year RN degrees near me are about 55-65K, and you easily go over 100K in a few years.

BobbyJo 5y ago

The market... finds a way.

bumby 5y ago
While technically true, what we're trying to avoid is forcing the market to find a way that may include an interim period of extremely bad outcomes before correcting itself