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> They also have something similar in Germany IIRC. citation needed! german here, business ppl routinely joke about the fine for illegal parking on public gou

> They also have something similar in Germany IIRC. citation needed! german here, business ppl routinely joke about the fine for illegal parking on public gounds is mostly far less than a few hours at a commercial parkinghouse.

belter 4y ago
Parking is an exception. How would you do it? Scan your latest tax report when driving in? They do it for other stuff: [1] "Day-fine" "...A day-fine, day fine, unit fine or structured fine is a unit of fine payment that, above a minimum fine, is based on the offender's daily personal income... " "...Jurisdictions employing the day-fine include Denmark (Danish: dagbøde), Estonia (Estonian: päevamäär), Finland (Finnish: päiväsakko), France (French: Jour-amende), Germany (German: Tagessatz), Sweden (Swedish: dagsbot), Switzerland, and Macao...." "The Limits of Fairer Fines: Lessons from Germany" https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Day_Fines_Report.pdf https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Day_Fines_Rep... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine#cite_note-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine#cite_note-1
rndgermandude 4y ago
Germany has it, but not for things like parking tickets[0], speeding tickets, etc. But criminal law (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB) makes extensive use of it. Every time you see the StGB talk about a fine, unless explicitly stated otherwise, it will be a scaled fine based on the daily income of the convicted party (Tagessatz). Courts can estimate the income if need be. A court may e.g. find that somebody committed minor battery, and issue a fine of 12 Tagessätze. If you make 3000 EUR a month (net), that's 3000EUR/30 = 100 EUR for a Tagessatz, and then 10 Tagessätze is 1200 EUR. However, it's not fully scaled, as it is capped at 30,000 EUR per Tagessatz. E.g. a football (soccer) player was recently convicted[1] of battery against his former partner, and fined 60 Tagessätze. He makes (or used to make) significantly more than the 30K cap, so "only" would have to pay 1.8M EUR instead of the probably 3-5M EUR he'd have to pay if there was no such cap. Personally I'd welcome if traffic and many other fines were scaled fines, too. The reason it isn't is probably because fine issuance would not scale itself: too many violations and each violation would then involve a court deciding what the net income of somebody is and therefore what the scaled fine will be. With a flat fine you can avoid involving the courts most of the time (most parking tickets will be uncontested). [0] The parking violation joke was common, indeed, but not so much anymore, as the fines for parking violations have been drastically increased this year, from 15 EUR to 55 EUR per violation or even 110 EUR if you obstruct traffic, including pedestrian and bicycle traffic. Obstructing traffic also earns you one point in the traffic register now, so even people who still think a ticket is cheaper than paying for a proper parking space will not like it when their license is suspended eventually due to too many parking violations. [1] The sentence is not final yet. The defendant, the prosecution (state) and the accessory prosecution (victim) each appealed the decision.

belter 4y ago

Parking is an exception. How would you do it? Scan your latest tax report when driving in? They do it for other stuff: [1] "Day-fine" "...A day-fine, day fine, unit fine or structured fine is a unit of fine payment that, above a minimum fine, is based on the offender's daily personal income... " "...Jurisdictions employing the day-fine include Denmark (Danish: dagbøde), Estonia (Estonian: päevamäär), Finland (Finnish: päiväsakko), France (French: Jour-amende), Germany (German: Tagessatz), Sweden (Swedish: dagsbot), Switzerland, and Macao...." "The Limits of Fairer Fines: Lessons from Germany" https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Day_Fines_Report.pdf https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Day_Fines_Rep... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine#cite_note-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine#cite_note-1

rndgermandude 4y ago

Germany has it, but not for things like parking tickets[0], speeding tickets, etc. But criminal law (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB) makes extensive use of it. Every time you see the StGB talk about a fine, unless explicitly stated otherwise, it will be a scaled fine based on the daily income of the convicted party (Tagessatz). Courts can estimate the income if need be. A court may e.g. find that somebody committed minor battery, and issue a fine of 12 Tagessätze. If you make 3000 EUR a month (net), that's 3000EUR/30 = 100 EUR for a Tagessatz, and then 10 Tagessätze is 1200 EUR. However, it's not fully scaled, as it is capped at 30,000 EUR per Tagessatz. E.g. a football (soccer) player was recently convicted[1] of battery against his former partner, and fined 60 Tagessätze. He makes (or used to make) significantly more than the 30K cap, so "only" would have to pay 1.8M EUR instead of the probably 3-5M EUR he'd have to pay if there was no such cap. Personally I'd welcome if traffic and many other fines were scaled fines, too. The reason it isn't is probably because fine issuance would not scale itself: too many violations and each violation would then involve a court deciding what the net income of somebody is and therefore what the scaled fine will be. With a flat fine you can avoid involving the courts most of the time (most parking tickets will be uncontested). [0] The parking violation joke was common, indeed, but not so much anymore, as the fines for parking violations have been drastically increased this year, from 15 EUR to 55 EUR per violation or even 110 EUR if you obstruct traffic, including pedestrian and bicycle traffic. Obstructing traffic also earns you one point in the traffic register now, so even people who still think a ticket is cheaper than paying for a proper parking space will not like it when their license is suspended eventually due to too many parking violations. [1] The sentence is not final yet. The defendant, the prosecution (state) and the accessory prosecution (victim) each appealed the decision.