On the contrary, I enjoy a good discussion! I do totally get the point of using a framework like React or Vue to manage state on a complex app. I do purposeful

On the contrary, I enjoy a good discussion! I do totally get the point of using a framework like React or Vue to manage state on a complex app. I do purposefully call them apps, because websites are a more general term. Hand woven javascript UI, even if it was using an utility framework like mootools could get out of hand pretty easily. I recall things like extjs that were also popular. Following my own example, managing push state by hand was tricky. So I did buy in on the premise that an opinionated way of structuring help and more importantly state was necessary. But I have been consistently failing to learn any new frontend tool ever since. This was not terrible professionally, since I mostly do what most refer to backend or systems. But still it is a bit frustrating not being able to follow along. Maybe it would be easier if this was 'it' when I started learning as sometimes it's difficult to forget and relearn. Speaking of React / Vue codebases, I have thrice tried to contribute some changes or fix a bug on different projects and the amount of boilerplate I had to go through felt completely unnecessary and overkill. Maybe the pattern on these never 'clicked' or I was very unlucky to stumble unto bad examples. It's very easy to dismiss something one does not understand as unnecessary complex so I am still open minded about it. The feeling of disgust when I see the many levels of inference, types and juggling state around for UX that I see as pretty basic persists, though. I like the result, I abhor the execution.