4 ms·

`Great to see you -> Mouth` And I thought translation is so good these days

ithkuil 4y ago
Context matters. If you don't have context you can't translate faithfully. Some expressions have multiple meanings. Humans do a very good job guessing the most likely meaning, but the main metric of what constitutes the most likely meaning is the context. The other metric is which meaning is the most common. But humans can disagree about what they think is most common/reasonable. The shorter the text, the less internal context, the more opportunities for drift. For example consider the full sentence: > The farmer allows walkers to cross the field for free, but the bull charges. Here it's clear it's a word play on the multiple meanings of the verb "to charge" and a human translator can decide to traduce it correctly but losing the word play or to just give up or invent an equivalent word play. But in isolation "the bull charges" is likely to be interpreted as the bull is going to hit you with its horns, rather than it will require you to give it some money. Now, you just have to find a word that behaves this way one the way back to English, which gets more and more likely the more languages you use in the chain.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  In this case, shouldn't a translator give me both options? E.g. it should translate both "the bull attacks" and "the bull requires payment". If it can find a single word with both meanings in the target language, use that. Otherwise, return multiple options — a UI could allow the user to choose, presenting the meaning of each translation alongside it.
  - numpad0 4y ago
    > the bull requires payment Is the bull the one requiring or being required the payment? Or is bull used as a noun or a verb - I mean it's just too ambiguous to do anything with, and some ambiguity is hard to even notice without a context. Though, "the bull charges" is worse; it can't even be determined whether it's first or second person interaction, so "the bull requires" is definitely a clarification.
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    Most automated translators indeed offer multiple translations. The UI may decide to offer a default choice and to offer a way to explore the alternatives. TFA is about building a chain of 10 "default translations". Picking "the right translation" manually on each step would defeat the purpose of the demo.

Context matters. If you don't have context you can't translate faithfully. Some expressions have multiple meanings. Humans do a very good job guessing the most likely meaning, but the main metric of what constitutes the most likely meaning is the context. The other metric is which meaning is the most common. But humans can disagree about what they think is most common/reasonable. The shorter the text, the less internal context, the more opportunities for drift. For example consider the full sentence: > The farmer allows walkers to cross the field for free, but the bull charges. Here it's clear it's a word play on the multiple meanings of the verb "to charge" and a human translator can decide to traduce it correctly but losing the word play or to just give up or invent an equivalent word play. But in isolation "the bull charges" is likely to be interpreted as the bull is going to hit you with its horns, rather than it will require you to give it some money. Now, you just have to find a word that behaves this way one the way back to English, which gets more and more likely the more languages you use in the chain.

oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
In this case, shouldn't a translator give me both options? E.g. it should translate both "the bull attacks" and "the bull requires payment". If it can find a single word with both meanings in the target language, use that. Otherwise, return multiple options — a UI could allow the user to choose, presenting the meaning of each translation alongside it.
- numpad0 4y ago
  > the bull requires payment Is the bull the one requiring or being required the payment? Or is bull used as a noun or a verb - I mean it's just too ambiguous to do anything with, and some ambiguity is hard to even notice without a context. Though, "the bull charges" is worse; it can't even be determined whether it's first or second person interaction, so "the bull requires" is definitely a clarification.
- ithkuil 4y ago
  Most automated translators indeed offer multiple translations. The UI may decide to offer a default choice and to offer a way to explore the alternatives. TFA is about building a chain of 10 "default translations". Picking "the right translation" manually on each step would defeat the purpose of the demo.