4 ms·

> There are no "monetary payments to deter future crime" in Australian civil law. I might be missing something but it seems like a good idea that a civil court

> There are no "monetary payments to deter future crime" in Australian civil law. I might be missing something but it seems like a good idea that a civil court is unable to punish people after deciding it is necessary to encourage them not to break a criminal law in future. Australia does presumably have punitive fines and other punishments that are for deterrence in criminal punishments?

chottocharaii 4y ago
The parent comment is completely incorrect as to their understanding of Australian law.
vkou 4y ago
> I might be missing something but it seems like a good idea that a civil court is unable to punish people after deciding it is necessary to encourage them not to break a criminal law in future. If I can steal $5 from you, and the worst thing that happens if I get caught is that I have to give the $5 back, what sort of incentive do you think that creates?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > If I can steal $5 from you, and the worst thing that happens if I get caught is that I have to give the $5 back, what sort of incentive do you think that creates? Theft is a criminal matter, and there are punitive remedies for crimes.
  - urthor 4y ago
    These are civil, white collar crimes. It's the same concept. If a corporation commits a civil crime, the maximum in damages it can repay is the amount of damage it caused, give or take interest.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      > These are civil, white collar crimes. > It's the same concept. If a corporation commits a civil crime, the maximum in damages it can repay is the amount of damage it caused, give or take interest. It sounds like you're just making that up. I found the agency and the page on the regulation being breached: https://www.accc.gov.au/business/business-rights-protections/fines-penalties https://www.accc.gov.au/business/business-rights-protections... The maximum penalties per breach of the ACL including unconscionable conduct, making false or misleading representations, and supplying consumer goods or certain services that do not comply with safety standards or which are banned: For corporations, will be the greater of: * $10,000,000* * 3 times the value of the benefit received, or * 10% of annual turnover in preceding 12 months, if court cannot determine benefit obtained from the offence. The penalty for this particular "civil crime" (if that is actually what it's called), does not talk about repaying damages at all, and it can be 3 times the value of the benefit. So what's the basis for what your seemingly contradictory claims?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- zaphirplane 4y ago
  Err you also win a criminal record, failing background checks and likely a custodial sentence
  - vkou 4y ago
    None of these things can practically happen to a corporation. But maybe you're on to something, here - perhaps they should.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      > None of these things can practically happen to a corporation. But the corporation didn't break a criminal law like the person in this example. > But maybe you're on to something, here - perhaps they should. Directors and executives can absolutely get convicted of crimes relating to their operation and oversight of the company. Whether the laws and investigating agencies have as much power as they should is very debatable but the legal framework is there.

chottocharaii 4y ago

The parent comment is completely incorrect as to their understanding of Australian law.

vkou 4y ago

> I might be missing something but it seems like a good idea that a civil court is unable to punish people after deciding it is necessary to encourage them not to break a criminal law in future. If I can steal $5 from you, and the worst thing that happens if I get caught is that I have to give the $5 back, what sort of incentive do you think that creates?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwawaylinux 4y ago
> If I can steal $5 from you, and the worst thing that happens if I get caught is that I have to give the $5 back, what sort of incentive do you think that creates? Theft is a criminal matter, and there are punitive remedies for crimes.
- urthor 4y ago
  These are civil, white collar crimes. It's the same concept. If a corporation commits a civil crime, the maximum in damages it can repay is the amount of damage it caused, give or take interest.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    > These are civil, white collar crimes. > It's the same concept. If a corporation commits a civil crime, the maximum in damages it can repay is the amount of damage it caused, give or take interest. It sounds like you're just making that up. I found the agency and the page on the regulation being breached: https://www.accc.gov.au/business/business-rights-protections/fines-penalties https://www.accc.gov.au/business/business-rights-protections... The maximum penalties per breach of the ACL including unconscionable conduct, making false or misleading representations, and supplying consumer goods or certain services that do not comply with safety standards or which are banned: For corporations, will be the greater of: * $10,000,000* * 3 times the value of the benefit received, or * 10% of annual turnover in preceding 12 months, if court cannot determine benefit obtained from the offence. The penalty for this particular "civil crime" (if that is actually what it's called), does not talk about repaying damages at all, and it can be 3 times the value of the benefit. So what's the basis for what your seemingly contradictory claims?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
zaphirplane 4y ago
Err you also win a criminal record, failing background checks and likely a custodial sentence
- vkou 4y ago
  None of these things can practically happen to a corporation. But maybe you're on to something, here - perhaps they should.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    > None of these things can practically happen to a corporation. But the corporation didn't break a criminal law like the person in this example. > But maybe you're on to something, here - perhaps they should. Directors and executives can absolutely get convicted of crimes relating to their operation and oversight of the company. Whether the laws and investigating agencies have as much power as they should is very debatable but the legal framework is there.