4 ms·

What was the problem with Trump using Deutsche Bank?

jonny_eh 5y ago
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/trumpinc/episodes/trump-inc-trump-deutsche-bank-its-complicated https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/trumpinc/episodes/trump...
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  Is it me or is there absolutely no meat there? The logic basically seems to be Trump uses DB, DB does business in Russia, therefore ...
- belorn 5y ago
  At the end of the article there is a fairly good summery. Trump borrowed money from Deutsche Bank at apparent favorable terms. At the same time period, Deutsche Bank was been scrutinized and fined for its dealings in Russia, converting rubles into dollars in ways that bypass money laundering laws.
Sakos 5y ago
tl;dr No bank was willing to loan him money and DB was desperately trying to become more relevant, so they facilitated Trump loaning from Russian investors. In a not so kosher way (ie, money laundering).
- 0xy 5y ago
  Practically everything you wrote is conjecture. There is zero evidence DB was a middleman for Russian investors for Trump loans. There is evidence DB was laundering money for shady Russians, however there is zero evidence any of that is linked to Trump.
  - Sakos 5y ago
    I have no idea how to respond to this quickly without rehashing a dozen articles/reports. What I've stated has been clearly established.
  - throwaway4good 5y ago
    DB is a big bank with plenty of money to loan out without relying on Russian money. Unless some dubious Russians guaranteed the loans to Trump then what is the problem?
    - Sakos 5y ago
      You're missing the point that no bank wanted to loan Trump money. This was the wealth unit of DB, not DB proper, because they were already having problems getting their money back from Trump. The wealth unit was a way to connect foreign investors and loanees, meaning they didn't have to put up their own money and could avoid regulations around banking loans.
      - 0xy 5y ago
        The claim that DB's Trump loans had Russian counterparties is unproven speculation. That's the bottom line. There isn't a single piece of evidence to support the claim.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - vmception 5y ago
    I always find it interesting how the mere political nature of it makes this benign idea something that needs to be proved. woaaaaahhhhh an investing syndicate filled a large loan facilitated by a broker, shut down anyone looking at who the investors were the word choice of "evidence" is so strange to me. I don't really care, I sell trinkets and ad space to all parties and their fans, I just think what people decide to be polarizing is so comical
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90464228/the-journalist-who-revealed-the-secrets-of-trumps-relationship-with-deutsche-bank https://www.fastcompany.com/90464228/the-journalist-who-reve... https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helpe... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/deutsche-bank-that-lent-300m-to-trump-linked-to-russian-money-laundering-scam https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/deutsche-bank-...
    - 0xy 5y ago
      None of those articles back up the points made by the parent comment. It's a very big leap to go from "DB launders money for Russias" to "DB's loans to Trump had Russian counterparties" -- a completely unproven claim. As for Trump receiving Russian money for run-of-the-mill apartment sales, isn't this a giant reach? The customers for those products are traditionally wealthy foreigners. Why is it fundamentally different if he sells an apartment decades ago to a wealthy Russian versus a wealthy Luxembourgian banker? It's such a huge leap. Russians purchased apartments therefore he's backed by the Kremlin decades later? That's extraordinarily hard to believe, considering Trump was a major underdog when he announced and only became a frontrunner after Clinton's "pied piper strategy" elevated him deliberately. [1] Was HRC a Russian asset by providing priceless media attention to the underdog? [1] https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaig...
jollybean 5y ago
It's possibly an intermediary for him and other bad actors, we don't know who has possibly underwritten some loans etc..
pjc50 5y ago
Some specific claims: https://www.ft.com/content/a50622ce-97e1-471a-b99c-e92e7fc36615 https://www.ft.com/content/a50622ce-97e1-471a-b99c-e92e7fc36... > “Without this deferral, the hotel may have needed to pay tens of millions of additional dollars to Deutsche Bank at a time when it was already facing steep losses,” the report stated, adding: “Mr Trump did not publicly disclose this significant benefit from a foreign bank while he was president.” The President is not supposed to accept large undisclosed gifts from foreign companies, it looks like bribery. Nobody has managed to directly connect Trump to money laundering. Trump collaborators, though? Paul Manafort, his campaign director, was convicted of money laundering and illegal payments from the Russian-sponsored Yanukovych government of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_Paul_Manafort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_Paul_Manafort

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/trumpinc/episodes/trump-inc-trump-deutsche-bank-its-complicated https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/trumpinc/episodes/trump...

throwaway4good 5y ago
Is it me or is there absolutely no meat there? The logic basically seems to be Trump uses DB, DB does business in Russia, therefore ...
belorn 5y ago
At the end of the article there is a fairly good summery. Trump borrowed money from Deutsche Bank at apparent favorable terms. At the same time period, Deutsche Bank was been scrutinized and fined for its dealings in Russia, converting rubles into dollars in ways that bypass money laundering laws.

Sakos 5y ago

tl;dr No bank was willing to loan him money and DB was desperately trying to become more relevant, so they facilitated Trump loaning from Russian investors. In a not so kosher way (ie, money laundering).

0xy 5y ago
Practically everything you wrote is conjecture. There is zero evidence DB was a middleman for Russian investors for Trump loans. There is evidence DB was laundering money for shady Russians, however there is zero evidence any of that is linked to Trump.
- Sakos 5y ago
  I have no idea how to respond to this quickly without rehashing a dozen articles/reports. What I've stated has been clearly established.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  DB is a big bank with plenty of money to loan out without relying on Russian money. Unless some dubious Russians guaranteed the loans to Trump then what is the problem?
  - Sakos 5y ago
    You're missing the point that no bank wanted to loan Trump money. This was the wealth unit of DB, not DB proper, because they were already having problems getting their money back from Trump. The wealth unit was a way to connect foreign investors and loanees, meaning they didn't have to put up their own money and could avoid regulations around banking loans.
    - 0xy 5y ago
      The claim that DB's Trump loans had Russian counterparties is unproven speculation. That's the bottom line. There isn't a single piece of evidence to support the claim.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- vmception 5y ago
  I always find it interesting how the mere political nature of it makes this benign idea something that needs to be proved. woaaaaahhhhh an investing syndicate filled a large loan facilitated by a broker, shut down anyone looking at who the investors were the word choice of "evidence" is so strange to me. I don't really care, I sell trinkets and ad space to all parties and their fans, I just think what people decide to be polarizing is so comical
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  https://www.fastcompany.com/90464228/the-journalist-who-revealed-the-secrets-of-trumps-relationship-with-deutsche-bank https://www.fastcompany.com/90464228/the-journalist-who-reve... https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helpe... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/deutsche-bank-that-lent-300m-to-trump-linked-to-russian-money-laundering-scam https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/21/deutsche-bank-...
  - 0xy 5y ago
    None of those articles back up the points made by the parent comment. It's a very big leap to go from "DB launders money for Russias" to "DB's loans to Trump had Russian counterparties" -- a completely unproven claim. As for Trump receiving Russian money for run-of-the-mill apartment sales, isn't this a giant reach? The customers for those products are traditionally wealthy foreigners. Why is it fundamentally different if he sells an apartment decades ago to a wealthy Russian versus a wealthy Luxembourgian banker? It's such a huge leap. Russians purchased apartments therefore he's backed by the Kremlin decades later? That's extraordinarily hard to believe, considering Trump was a major underdog when he announced and only became a frontrunner after Clinton's "pied piper strategy" elevated him deliberately. [1] Was HRC a Russian asset by providing priceless media attention to the underdog? [1] https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaig...

jollybean 5y ago

It's possibly an intermediary for him and other bad actors, we don't know who has possibly underwritten some loans etc..

pjc50 5y ago

Some specific claims: https://www.ft.com/content/a50622ce-97e1-471a-b99c-e92e7fc36615 https://www.ft.com/content/a50622ce-97e1-471a-b99c-e92e7fc36... > “Without this deferral, the hotel may have needed to pay tens of millions of additional dollars to Deutsche Bank at a time when it was already facing steep losses,” the report stated, adding: “Mr Trump did not publicly disclose this significant benefit from a foreign bank while he was president.” The President is not supposed to accept large undisclosed gifts from foreign companies, it looks like bribery. Nobody has managed to directly connect Trump to money laundering. Trump collaborators, though? Paul Manafort, his campaign director, was convicted of money laundering and illegal payments from the Russian-sponsored Yanukovych government of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_Paul_Manafort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trials_of_Paul_Manafort