3 ms·

A federated/decentralized social network...feels fragmented? Good!(?)

by aaaaaaaaata 5y ago

saurik 5y ago
Not really? Like, email is federated, but it doesn't feel "fragmented".
- nine_k 5y ago
  With email, discoverability sucks! More seriously, there is a large niche for smaller communities of like-minded people. I suspect that Mastodon gives an easy tool to form them. They don't want to be discovered too easily, and prefer existing social links pull new members in, instead of chance encounters. Compare this to obscure subreddits. Opposite to that, Twitter is global and total. It's one colossal room. No wonder that celebrities dominate it: drawing attention and talking to huge audiences is what they do for a living. It's also an obvious place for official broadcasting. Mastodon is not.
  - saurik 5y ago
    I have no interest in the things you state, FWIW. The issue I have is that--apparently, based on this and other threads on the software--it matters what server you are on for even basic things like "can I follow another user I actively know about?" or "can I reply to a post from another user I already know about?". I have almost never had issues replying to emails from people I have received, receiving emails from people who intended to send me an email, or being able to send email to someone random I have heard about. These issues DO happen, but they are so rare I can't remember the last time it happened to me, and it has always been to the discredit of one of the two party's email servers... but with Mastadon, people are making it sound like all of this fragmentation is a feature?
    - Tepix 5y ago
      > The issue I have is that--apparently, based on this and other threads on the software--it matters what server you are on for even basic things like "can I follow another user I actively know about?" or "can I reply to a post from another user I already know about?". No. Perhaps you should give it a try.
    - Zardoz84 5y ago
      You can follow and reply to users on another instances.
- nulbyte 5y ago
  And yet, email addresses for external users are usually discovered outside of the sender's email system. I'm not sure I understand how this poses a problem for Mastodon. Heck, even when I was on Twitter, I rarely discovered people's usernames on Twitter.
  - saurik 5y ago
    People in various threads here are reporting issues even when you know of the other user or the other content, whether it be issues replying to posts or seeing mentions.
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
  It does if you fall outside the (unruly and algorithmic!) good graces of Google!
  - saurik 5y ago
    In contrast to the other comments, this is actually one I 100% agree with... and is part of the downfall of federated systems (which I have given short talks on before <- not to advocate for centralized ones, like Moxie does, but to advocate for fully distributed ones): they tend to end up with a small number of heavy instances designed to provide better moderation, security, or discovery with the result that you end up with little fiefdoms with peering agreements instead of a system where anyone can actually talk to anyone else. And yet, the status quo with email is nowhere near as bad as it is sounding like with Mastadon.

A federated/decentralized social network...feels fragmented? Good!(?)

saurik 5y ago

Not really? Like, email is federated, but it doesn't feel "fragmented".

nine_k 5y ago
With email, discoverability sucks! More seriously, there is a large niche for smaller communities of like-minded people. I suspect that Mastodon gives an easy tool to form them. They don't want to be discovered too easily, and prefer existing social links pull new members in, instead of chance encounters. Compare this to obscure subreddits. Opposite to that, Twitter is global and total. It's one colossal room. No wonder that celebrities dominate it: drawing attention and talking to huge audiences is what they do for a living. It's also an obvious place for official broadcasting. Mastodon is not.
- saurik 5y ago
  I have no interest in the things you state, FWIW. The issue I have is that--apparently, based on this and other threads on the software--it matters what server you are on for even basic things like "can I follow another user I actively know about?" or "can I reply to a post from another user I already know about?". I have almost never had issues replying to emails from people I have received, receiving emails from people who intended to send me an email, or being able to send email to someone random I have heard about. These issues DO happen, but they are so rare I can't remember the last time it happened to me, and it has always been to the discredit of one of the two party's email servers... but with Mastadon, people are making it sound like all of this fragmentation is a feature?
  - Tepix 5y ago
    > The issue I have is that--apparently, based on this and other threads on the software--it matters what server you are on for even basic things like "can I follow another user I actively know about?" or "can I reply to a post from another user I already know about?". No. Perhaps you should give it a try.
  - Zardoz84 5y ago
    You can follow and reply to users on another instances.
nulbyte 5y ago
And yet, email addresses for external users are usually discovered outside of the sender's email system. I'm not sure I understand how this poses a problem for Mastodon. Heck, even when I was on Twitter, I rarely discovered people's usernames on Twitter.
- saurik 5y ago
  People in various threads here are reporting issues even when you know of the other user or the other content, whether it be issues replying to posts or seeing mentions.
aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
It does if you fall outside the (unruly and algorithmic!) good graces of Google!
- saurik 5y ago
  In contrast to the other comments, this is actually one I 100% agree with... and is part of the downfall of federated systems (which I have given short talks on before <- not to advocate for centralized ones, like Moxie does, but to advocate for fully distributed ones): they tend to end up with a small number of heavy instances designed to provide better moderation, security, or discovery with the result that you end up with little fiefdoms with peering agreements instead of a system where anyone can actually talk to anyone else. And yet, the status quo with email is nowhere near as bad as it is sounding like with Mastadon.