5 ms·

How does one find the bigger Mastadon instances? They aren't even listed on this joinmastodon website. I know it is intentionally decentralized, but it seems li

How does one find the bigger Mastadon instances? They aren't even listed on this joinmastodon website. I know it is intentionally decentralized, but it seems like it can never catch on because it feels like 100s of separate websites. You have to make logins for every single one.

LeoPanthera 5y ago
There are directories. One: https://joinmastodon.org/communities https://joinmastodon.org/communities Another: https://instances.social https://instances.social
- ineedasername 5y ago
  It seems like that method would break down if Mastadon gained massive adoption.
  - Groxx 5y ago
    That's a good problem to have. And one with multiple ways to tackle. Mastodon is a ways away from that currently though.
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      That depends on the nature of the problem. Solutions we've seen so far to problems of discoverability in massive amounts of content have been to use an algorithm of some sort to provide results either through searching, recommendations or both. It seems like Mastadon or a 3rd party would have to come up with a novel, effective solution to the issue of content discover that no one else has found yet. It's not just about providing search results, but in general showing users what they might be interested. Right now that can be done via lists and directories that are still relatively small enough to browse a lot of it and get a general sense of a lot of what is there to choose from. But maybe it doesn't have to solve that problem better than others have to avoid their pitfalls. The second link up in this thread is at least an open source search engine so the algorithm can be scrutinized. Even if they converge on similar content discovery solutions, as long as the search engines that pop up are open source then people can at least know how the results are weighted.
      - ikt 5y ago
        > It seems like Mastadon or a 3rd party would have to come up with a novel, effective solution to the issue of content discover that no one else has found yet No ty! Very happy with my home timeline and 'local' timeline, don't need anyone trying to get me addicted to something else.
        Groxx 4y ago
        Yeah, I'm completely agreed with this. While I certainly see the utility in truly global search / discovery systems (they're great!), all the big ones turn deeply abusive and manipulative in time, because they are all ranking systems of some kind, which can be gamed[1]. Nothing has ever fixed that issue, and I'm not sure it's possible to. Small communities can more reasonably deal with it by hand when necessary, so they can get closer to what they meant rather than what they said, which is what I think most people want/need. [1]: "Closest text match" ranks in favor of both precise words and phrases, and commonly used ones (you can game it by being predictably-niche or by using the most used things). "Most recent" ranks heavily on frequency (game it by doing things a million times per day). "Page rank" is literally just a popularity contest, easily swayed by money and connections like all popularity. It doesn't matter what you're doing, you're promoting something and thus providing a way to control your promotion to determined parties.
  - rchaud 5y ago
    Why? Yahoo maintained a directory of websites well past the time people began using search engines religiously.
ryukafalz 5y ago
> You have to make logins for every single one. You only have to make a login on one, and you can still talk to people on the others. It’s like email.
fabianhjr 5y ago
It is federated like email so if you have an email (@gmail, @yahoo, @custom.domain, etc) they are all interoperable. (Modulo moderation / spam filters) You don't have nor would be able to create an email address in all public email servers. (Without mentioning private/non-public email servers or personal/family ones of others)
- izzydata 5y ago
  I login to my old Mastadon account on some specific server then try to reply to someone on another one. It asks me for the domain I want to act from so I type it in. Click Proceed to reply and am greeted with an error screen saying something went wrong. I really want an alternative to Twitter, but using this site feels very abrasive.
  - usrn 5y ago
    The reply page is hosted on the remote instance often so they can show anything including an error page. I think qoto.org has some extra changes that make this a little more well behaved by hosting it locally (depending on which button you push.)
  - Zardoz84 5y ago
    looks that there are some issues with the huge wave of new users. I have the same problem trying to reply or follow accounts from another few instances.
dcchambers 5y ago
> You have to make logins for every single one. You don't. You join one - or host your own - and your mastodon instance is connected to the others. You can follow users on any other public mastodon instance.
- skybrian 5y ago
  That is, unless they block each other for some reason. Each site's admins can set their own policy on blocked servers.
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    So? Same as email. If your site is blocked for spam...
    - jdrc 5y ago
      unfortunately it is not like email. they don't block for spam, they block for things they don't like. i don't know if it is a cultural problem, or an consequence of the fact that mastodon started in the mid-2010s vs email which is ancient
      - VMtest 5y ago
        I can block emails that I don't like as well... That's their mastodon instances, not anyone else's, it's up to them to do what they want
        skybrian 4y ago
        And that would be fine if everyone ran their own servers. For a new user looking to create an account on someone else's server, it means that which one you pick matters and you need to know the admin policy, which makes "shopping" more difficult. If Mastodon ever takes off for real, I expect that professionally run servers will be pretty popular.
- 5y ago
CharlesW 5y ago
Someday a tech giant will mainstream Mastndon by recentralizing it, either by (1) running a large enough instance that its gravity sucks in everyone else, or by (2) creating a service/client on top of Mastodon that creates a unified Mastodoniverse. Decentralized services don't become mainstream without restoring the user conveniences of centralization.
- tekromancr 5y ago
  It's federated, mate. You don't need to be on the same server as your friends to talk to them.
  - CharlesW 5y ago
    > You don't need to be on the same server as your friends to talk to them. That's like saying you don't need search engines to view websites — your friends could just email you links to good ones. Technically true, sure.
    - tekromancr 5y ago
      I have it open on another tab, I use it pretty much every day. I've built incredible friendships in there; And when I started I knew nobody on the protocol. A lot of the people I am mutuals with aren't even on the same instance as me; and yet, somehow I was able to find and connect with them. When they post things, I see it. When I post things they see it. Like, what you are saying is so nonsensical as to be not even wrong. I /think/ you are trying to say something about discoverability, but like, it's not really that hard. You can just watch the local or federated tabs, and if you see anything interesting check it out. If someone seems alright you might even reply to something they post. Pretty soon you are having conversations, and the people you follow are boosting other nice, interesting people onto your home tab. Next thing you know, you are part of a community. It's great! And all of this happens without the need for some weird corporate overlord to try and mediate the experience by way of manipulating you in order to keep you online longer so they can steal your data and shove ads down your optic nerves.

LeoPanthera 5y ago

There are directories. One: https://joinmastodon.org/communities https://joinmastodon.org/communities Another: https://instances.social https://instances.social

ineedasername 5y ago
It seems like that method would break down if Mastadon gained massive adoption.
- Groxx 5y ago
  That's a good problem to have. And one with multiple ways to tackle. Mastodon is a ways away from that currently though.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    That depends on the nature of the problem. Solutions we've seen so far to problems of discoverability in massive amounts of content have been to use an algorithm of some sort to provide results either through searching, recommendations or both. It seems like Mastadon or a 3rd party would have to come up with a novel, effective solution to the issue of content discover that no one else has found yet. It's not just about providing search results, but in general showing users what they might be interested. Right now that can be done via lists and directories that are still relatively small enough to browse a lot of it and get a general sense of a lot of what is there to choose from. But maybe it doesn't have to solve that problem better than others have to avoid their pitfalls. The second link up in this thread is at least an open source search engine so the algorithm can be scrutinized. Even if they converge on similar content discovery solutions, as long as the search engines that pop up are open source then people can at least know how the results are weighted.
    - ikt 5y ago
      > It seems like Mastadon or a 3rd party would have to come up with a novel, effective solution to the issue of content discover that no one else has found yet No ty! Very happy with my home timeline and 'local' timeline, don't need anyone trying to get me addicted to something else.
      - Groxx 4y ago
        Yeah, I'm completely agreed with this. While I certainly see the utility in truly global search / discovery systems (they're great!), all the big ones turn deeply abusive and manipulative in time, because they are all ranking systems of some kind, which can be gamed[1]. Nothing has ever fixed that issue, and I'm not sure it's possible to. Small communities can more reasonably deal with it by hand when necessary, so they can get closer to what they meant rather than what they said, which is what I think most people want/need. [1]: "Closest text match" ranks in favor of both precise words and phrases, and commonly used ones (you can game it by being predictably-niche or by using the most used things). "Most recent" ranks heavily on frequency (game it by doing things a million times per day). "Page rank" is literally just a popularity contest, easily swayed by money and connections like all popularity. It doesn't matter what you're doing, you're promoting something and thus providing a way to control your promotion to determined parties.
- rchaud 5y ago
  Why? Yahoo maintained a directory of websites well past the time people began using search engines religiously.

ryukafalz 5y ago

> You have to make logins for every single one. You only have to make a login on one, and you can still talk to people on the others. It’s like email.

fabianhjr 5y ago

It is federated like email so if you have an email (@gmail, @yahoo, @custom.domain, etc) they are all interoperable. (Modulo moderation / spam filters) You don't have nor would be able to create an email address in all public email servers. (Without mentioning private/non-public email servers or personal/family ones of others)

izzydata 5y ago
I login to my old Mastadon account on some specific server then try to reply to someone on another one. It asks me for the domain I want to act from so I type it in. Click Proceed to reply and am greeted with an error screen saying something went wrong. I really want an alternative to Twitter, but using this site feels very abrasive.
- usrn 5y ago
  The reply page is hosted on the remote instance often so they can show anything including an error page. I think qoto.org has some extra changes that make this a little more well behaved by hosting it locally (depending on which button you push.)
- Zardoz84 5y ago
  looks that there are some issues with the huge wave of new users. I have the same problem trying to reply or follow accounts from another few instances.

dcchambers 5y ago

> You have to make logins for every single one. You don't. You join one - or host your own - and your mastodon instance is connected to the others. You can follow users on any other public mastodon instance.

skybrian 5y ago
That is, unless they block each other for some reason. Each site's admins can set their own policy on blocked servers.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  So? Same as email. If your site is blocked for spam...
  - jdrc 5y ago
    unfortunately it is not like email. they don't block for spam, they block for things they don't like. i don't know if it is a cultural problem, or an consequence of the fact that mastodon started in the mid-2010s vs email which is ancient
    - VMtest 5y ago
      I can block emails that I don't like as well... That's their mastodon instances, not anyone else's, it's up to them to do what they want
      - skybrian 4y ago
        And that would be fine if everyone ran their own servers. For a new user looking to create an account on someone else's server, it means that which one you pick matters and you need to know the admin policy, which makes "shopping" more difficult. If Mastodon ever takes off for real, I expect that professionally run servers will be pretty popular.
5y ago

CharlesW 5y ago

Someday a tech giant will mainstream Mastndon by recentralizing it, either by (1) running a large enough instance that its gravity sucks in everyone else, or by (2) creating a service/client on top of Mastodon that creates a unified Mastodoniverse. Decentralized services don't become mainstream without restoring the user conveniences of centralization.

tekromancr 5y ago
It's federated, mate. You don't need to be on the same server as your friends to talk to them.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  > You don't need to be on the same server as your friends to talk to them. That's like saying you don't need search engines to view websites — your friends could just email you links to good ones. Technically true, sure.
  - tekromancr 5y ago
    I have it open on another tab, I use it pretty much every day. I've built incredible friendships in there; And when I started I knew nobody on the protocol. A lot of the people I am mutuals with aren't even on the same instance as me; and yet, somehow I was able to find and connect with them. When they post things, I see it. When I post things they see it. Like, what you are saying is so nonsensical as to be not even wrong. I /think/ you are trying to say something about discoverability, but like, it's not really that hard. You can just watch the local or federated tabs, and if you see anything interesting check it out. If someone seems alright you might even reply to something they post. Pretty soon you are having conversations, and the people you follow are boosting other nice, interesting people onto your home tab. Next thing you know, you are part of a community. It's great! And all of this happens without the need for some weird corporate overlord to try and mediate the experience by way of manipulating you in order to keep you online longer so they can steal your data and shove ads down your optic nerves.