4 ms·

Pessimists do not discriminate between charlatan and innovator. They just sit on the sidelines and crap on everything because a) it doesn't require any work, a

Pessimists do not discriminate between charlatan and innovator. They just sit on the sidelines and crap on everything because a) it doesn't require any work, and b) ideas and attempts are imperfect, so it's easy to point out flaws in them and be correct. It's a low-stakes way of playing intellectual.

fartcannon 5y ago
So what's your threshold for when to call someone pessimistic when they're doing the very useful work of identifying flaws in something? Never? That's not going to work.
- jonas21 5y ago
  There's a difference between identifying things that you will need to overcome, mitigate, or work around in order to be successful (which is useful) and insisting that the existence of these things means the task is impossible or not worth trying (which is not useful).
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Sure, but if you google the definition of the word we're all talking about, there's no mention of impossible. Just someone that, "see[s] the worst aspect of things or believe[s] that the worst will happen". So basically, it's the person you might want around when you're building a bridge, or a jet, or a shuttle.
michaelmrose 5y ago
If we identify optimists and pessimists only by the most extreme variant of each we will have excluded virtually everyone and no longer possess a scale with which to measure them.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Pessimists do not discriminate between charlatan and innovator. They just sit on the sidelines and crap on everything because a) it doesn't require any work, and b) ideas and attempts are imperfect, so it's easy to point out flaws in them and be correct. This is the complaint of a salesman (or a follower of one) who's upset his job isn't easy, and wishes everyone was an optimist who'd just buy what he's selling based on his pitch. The difference between a charlatan and an innovator is an innovator delivers and a charlatan sells.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  This is precisely the attitude I was talking about with my comment. It assumes that it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions, because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > This is precisely the attitude I was talking about with my comment. It assumes that it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions, because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work. No it doesn't. Skepticism (or "pessimism") does not mean you "assume... it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions." > ...because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work. And what if the solution isn't a solution, or isn't actually good enough to elicit universal enthusiasm and praise? No one's entitled to criticism-free cheerleading.
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      You're strawmanning pretty hard here. Nobody mentioned anything about universal enthusiasm, praise, cheerleading, or anything similar. Looks like you've intentionally missed the point.

fartcannon 5y ago

So what's your threshold for when to call someone pessimistic when they're doing the very useful work of identifying flaws in something? Never? That's not going to work.

jonas21 5y ago
There's a difference between identifying things that you will need to overcome, mitigate, or work around in order to be successful (which is useful) and insisting that the existence of these things means the task is impossible or not worth trying (which is not useful).
- fartcannon 5y ago
  Sure, but if you google the definition of the word we're all talking about, there's no mention of impossible. Just someone that, "see[s] the worst aspect of things or believe[s] that the worst will happen". So basically, it's the person you might want around when you're building a bridge, or a jet, or a shuttle.

michaelmrose 5y ago

If we identify optimists and pessimists only by the most extreme variant of each we will have excluded virtually everyone and no longer possess a scale with which to measure them.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Pessimists do not discriminate between charlatan and innovator. They just sit on the sidelines and crap on everything because a) it doesn't require any work, and b) ideas and attempts are imperfect, so it's easy to point out flaws in them and be correct. This is the complaint of a salesman (or a follower of one) who's upset his job isn't easy, and wishes everyone was an optimist who'd just buy what he's selling based on his pitch. The difference between a charlatan and an innovator is an innovator delivers and a charlatan sells.

SantalBlush 5y ago
This is precisely the attitude I was talking about with my comment. It assumes that it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions, because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > This is precisely the attitude I was talking about with my comment. It assumes that it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions, because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work. No it doesn't. Skepticism (or "pessimism") does not mean you "assume... it's everyone else's job to provide you with solutions." > ...because providing solutions is the part that requires actual work. And what if the solution isn't a solution, or isn't actually good enough to elicit universal enthusiasm and praise? No one's entitled to criticism-free cheerleading.
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    You're strawmanning pretty hard here. Nobody mentioned anything about universal enthusiasm, praise, cheerleading, or anything similar. Looks like you've intentionally missed the point.