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> Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a pri

by danans 5y ago

> Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. And it's hard to attract good teachers to teach academics in those circumstances. The major problems with primary education in the US are largely faced disadvantaged communities, not prosperous ones. If we decide to remove educational funding from disadvantaged communities, we have to be prepared to either put it into those communities in other ways, otherwise we'll face even greater problems in schools. None of that is to say that there doesn't need to be more accountability in school systems - there is a lot that needs to be done to re-examine how education is delivered. But just looking at the situation by comparing $ spent on primary education between countries is oversimplifying things.

rayiner 5y ago
> Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. That’s true in virtually every country, because the school system is always the government’s primary point of contact with poor families. > It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. Agreed on school lunch. Large school districts already offer after school and summer programs. Disagree on more staff and psychologists. That’s the kind of waste that detracts from money for instruction. Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century. I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff.
- danans 5y ago
  > Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century Those countries did so by making absolutely massive infrastructure and human development investments in their poor populations during their industrializing phase, very similar to what the US did for its previously poor white population after the 2nd world war. The people who face the greatest educational obstacles in the US today are disproportionately people who were also largely excluded from the huge post-WW2 investments and ensuing economic miracle, and have since faced the economic brunt of de-industrialization. > I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff. They have far less crime and trauma to deal with, are not awash with weapons, and had very strong communal support systems. They were/are also quite authoritarian. Those are very different societies with very different circumstances. You can't directly compare the situation in post war Japan and Singapore with inner city America. By dint of our own history, issues of education and equity actually quite a bit harder here.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    > Those countries did so by making absolutely massive infrastructure and human development investments in their poor populations during their industrializing phase, very similar to what the US did for its previously poor white population after the 2nd world war. Japan and Singapore aren’t Nordic social welfare states. They invested heavily in development but not particularly targeted at the poor. > The people who face the greatest educational obstacles in the US today are disproportionately people who were also largely excluded from the huge post-WW2 investments and ensuing economic miracle, and have since faced the economic brunt of de-industrialization. Only if you pretend that white people in Appalachia are the same group as white people in Massachusetts. > They have far less crime and trauma to deal with, are not awash with weapons, and had very strong communal support systems. They were/are also quite authoritarian. Those are very different societies with very different circumstances. That indicates that America’s problem is culture, not the availability of school psychologists.
    - 5y ago

by danans 5y ago

rayiner 5y ago

> Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. That’s true in virtually every country, because the school system is always the government’s primary point of contact with poor families. > It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. Agreed on school lunch. Large school districts already offer after school and summer programs. Disagree on more staff and psychologists. That’s the kind of waste that detracts from money for instruction. Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century. I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff.

danans 5y ago
> Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century Those countries did so by making absolutely massive infrastructure and human development investments in their poor populations during their industrializing phase, very similar to what the US did for its previously poor white population after the 2nd world war. The people who face the greatest educational obstacles in the US today are disproportionately people who were also largely excluded from the huge post-WW2 investments and ensuing economic miracle, and have since faced the economic brunt of de-industrialization. > I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff. They have far less crime and trauma to deal with, are not awash with weapons, and had very strong communal support systems. They were/are also quite authoritarian. Those are very different societies with very different circumstances. You can't directly compare the situation in post war Japan and Singapore with inner city America. By dint of our own history, issues of education and equity actually quite a bit harder here.
- rayiner 5y ago
  > Those countries did so by making absolutely massive infrastructure and human development investments in their poor populations during their industrializing phase, very similar to what the US did for its previously poor white population after the 2nd world war. Japan and Singapore aren’t Nordic social welfare states. They invested heavily in development but not particularly targeted at the poor. > The people who face the greatest educational obstacles in the US today are disproportionately people who were also largely excluded from the huge post-WW2 investments and ensuing economic miracle, and have since faced the economic brunt of de-industrialization. Only if you pretend that white people in Appalachia are the same group as white people in Massachusetts. > They have far less crime and trauma to deal with, are not awash with weapons, and had very strong communal support systems. They were/are also quite authoritarian. Those are very different societies with very different circumstances. That indicates that America’s problem is culture, not the availability of school psychologists.
  - 5y ago