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The lack of resources for public education, coupled with the every increasing level of competency that students are required to internalize over time drives man

by danans 5y ago

The lack of resources for public education, coupled with the every increasing level of competency that students are required to internalize over time drives many of the fights in education. I can understand how an electrical engineering professor like yourself is rightly concerned about your incoming students having less calculus proficiency. On the other hand, there many (possibly far more numerous than EE) education and career paths that would benefit from better general numeracy but not necessary calculus. The terrible thing here is that these goals should be set against one another due to resource limitations. The blame for that lies with the broader societal inequities and their reflection on the educational funding system.

keneda7 5y ago
I'm a product of public schools and a state college. Due to my experiences I will never vote to give teachers one more dollar in funding until major changes occur. I had multiple high school teachers that were checked out. Would watch movies and do worksheets. We learned nothing in their class other than how bad they thought students were now days. Yet they were never fired. Some lasted another 10 years before retiring. I also had multiple professors that would start terms by saying if you have conservative views and you express them in class I will fail you. Had another professor joke about how she found out a student was part of a club she didn't like so she failed him. Often times these were not GE classes but CS specific. Politics have nothing to do with a class on OOP or AI. That is not teaching IMO. I have a ton of friends that feel the same way. Until this issue is actually recognized and addressed I do not believe you see anything change.
rayiner 5y ago
What exactly do you think are the facts regarding the "lack of resources" in education and "the educational funding system?" Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education (adjusted for purchasing power) of any developed country: https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed... Or that 50% of total K-12 school funding comes from federal and state sources, which is directed mainly at lower-income districts? And that, when including those funds, only a few states (ironically blue ones) have more than a 5% gap between rich and poor districts: https://edtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Gaps-in-State-and-Local-Revenues-per-Student-Between-Districts-Serving-the-Most-and-the-Fewest-Students-in-Poverty.jpg https://edtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Gaps-in-State.... Meanwhile about 20 states (including many red ones like Utah and Georgia) direct over 5% or more funding to poor school districts than rich ones?
- danans 5y ago
  > Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. And it's hard to attract good teachers to teach academics in those circumstances. The major problems with primary education in the US are largely faced disadvantaged communities, not prosperous ones. If we decide to remove educational funding from disadvantaged communities, we have to be prepared to either put it into those communities in other ways, otherwise we'll face even greater problems in schools. None of that is to say that there doesn't need to be more accountability in school systems - there is a lot that needs to be done to re-examine how education is delivered. But just looking at the situation by comparing $ spent on primary education between countries is oversimplifying things.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    > Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. That’s true in virtually every country, because the school system is always the government’s primary point of contact with poor families. > It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. Agreed on school lunch. Large school districts already offer after school and summer programs. Disagree on more staff and psychologists. That’s the kind of waste that detracts from money for instruction. Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century. I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff.
    - 5y ago

by danans 5y ago

keneda7 5y ago

I'm a product of public schools and a state college. Due to my experiences I will never vote to give teachers one more dollar in funding until major changes occur. I had multiple high school teachers that were checked out. Would watch movies and do worksheets. We learned nothing in their class other than how bad they thought students were now days. Yet they were never fired. Some lasted another 10 years before retiring. I also had multiple professors that would start terms by saying if you have conservative views and you express them in class I will fail you. Had another professor joke about how she found out a student was part of a club she didn't like so she failed him. Often times these were not GE classes but CS specific. Politics have nothing to do with a class on OOP or AI. That is not teaching IMO. I have a ton of friends that feel the same way. Until this issue is actually recognized and addressed I do not believe you see anything change.

rayiner 5y ago

What exactly do you think are the facts regarding the "lack of resources" in education and "the educational funding system?" Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education (adjusted for purchasing power) of any developed country: https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-education-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/238733/expenditure-on-ed... Or that 50% of total K-12 school funding comes from federal and state sources, which is directed mainly at lower-income districts? And that, when including those funds, only a few states (ironically blue ones) have more than a 5% gap between rich and poor districts: https://edtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Gaps-in-State-and-Local-Revenues-per-Student-Between-Districts-Serving-the-Most-and-the-Fewest-Students-in-Poverty.jpg https://edtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Gaps-in-State.... Meanwhile about 20 states (including many red ones like Utah and Georgia) direct over 5% or more funding to poor school districts than rich ones?

danans 5y ago
> Are you aware that the U.S. spends among the most on primary education Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. And it's hard to attract good teachers to teach academics in those circumstances. The major problems with primary education in the US are largely faced disadvantaged communities, not prosperous ones. If we decide to remove educational funding from disadvantaged communities, we have to be prepared to either put it into those communities in other ways, otherwise we'll face even greater problems in schools. None of that is to say that there doesn't need to be more accountability in school systems - there is a lot that needs to be done to re-examine how education is delivered. But just looking at the situation by comparing $ spent on primary education between countries is oversimplifying things.
- rayiner 5y ago
  > Yes, and I'm also aware that in the US we expect the public school system to be a primary treatment center for the disadvantages and traumas associated with poverty and unequal opportunity. That’s true in virtually every country, because the school system is always the government’s primary point of contact with poor families. > It's more expensive (and harder) to educate hungry, ignored, and traumatized children than it is to educate children who are well take care of. They need more support staff, more psychologists, more free lunch programs, after-school care that their parents can never afford. Agreed on school lunch. Large school districts already offer after school and summer programs. Disagree on more staff and psychologists. That’s the kind of waste that detracts from money for instruction. Countries like Japan and Singapore went from being desperately poor (at a level unimaginable even to an inner city American) to developed in a couple of generations in the 20th century. I’m pretty sure they didn’t (and still don’t) have a bunch of school psychologists on staff.
  - 5y ago