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Even 4chan is moderated so I think it will be interesting to see how Musk thinks he's solved the moderation problem. I'm confident he would have listened to cou

Even 4chan is moderated so I think it will be interesting to see how Musk thinks he's solved the moderation problem. I'm confident he would have listened to counsel and not waded into that cesspool without having some sort of new moderation idea that he thinks will work. He says he's a free speech absolutist without ever defining that. He can't rely on the law, because people are free to say all kinds of awful things without breaking the law. 4chan gets away with hate speech every hour of the day. Edit: This just in, he just defined it and says he will rely on the law. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519036983137509376 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1519036983137509376

paulpauper 4y ago
ppl complain about twitter being bad..4chan is just way more moderation, awful captcha system, new posts always being hidden at the bottom, etc.
- mwattsun 4y ago
  4chan gets me out of my bubble. It always surprises me how some people look at the world, kind of like how Terry Davis and his Temple OS was interesting.
  - Akronymus 4y ago
    With 4chan, if you are willing to actually engage, you can have some of THE best discussions on any platform out there.
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      As a wise man said, on 4chan smart people pretend to be stupid. On Reddit, stupid people pretend to be smart.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
nathias 4y ago
And? Free speech means they can say whatever, if you don't like them you can unfollow?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sytelus 4y ago
At the end of this experiment, either Musk will be cancelled or the cancel culture will be gone.
noelsusman 4y ago
I highly doubt Elon actually follows through with his "all legal speech is permissible" plan. Even in that tweet he's not completely unequivocal. He didn't say he's against censorship that goes beyond the law. He said he's against censorship that goes far beyond the law. It is not practical or desirable to rely on the government to set the bounds for speech on giant social media platforms.
jimmygrapes 4y ago
Which law? How is jurisdiction determined? Are there places where merely witnessing certain content is illegal for them but legal for the person posting it? Is a proxy or VPN sufficient to avoid that as a user? Is it going to just be U.S. federal law, California law, U.N. treaties and policies, or what?
- syshum 4y ago
  US Federal laws and CA law will be the same, 1st amendment trumps anything CA would try to do to curb speech. Same with UN Treaties, it literally not possible for the US to enter into a treaty that violates the constitution, the US Constitution overrules all laws, treaties, agreements, state laws, everything.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > US Federal laws and CA law will be the same No, they won't. > 1st amendment trumps anything CA would try to do to curb speech. Technically, no, the 1st Amendment as such, has no effect on California. The Supreme Court has, however, found that the among the restrictions imposed on the Statss by the 14th Amendment are protections essentially precisely equivalent to those in several parts of the Bill of Rights, including the First Amendment. But that doesn’t make California and federal law identical, it makes the outer limit of what federal and state governments could prohibit generally similar (because of the different interests of federal and state government and the way the strict scrutiny test is applied, even the actual outer limits on the two are not identical.)
    - syshum 4y ago
      >Technically, no, hmmm >>The Supreme Court has, however, found that the among the restrictions imposed on the Statss by the 14th Amendment So then, technically, yes it does apply. >But that doesn’t make California and federal law identical, Exactly, CA can only allow MORE speech, it CAN NOT have a more restrictive speech law than is allowed by the 1st amendment, which is pretty expansive prohibiting only actual defamation and true threats.
Rapzid 4y ago
That's a very unspecific comment. Twitter could censor just about anything they want and be on the right side of the law lol.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> This just in, he just defined it and says he will rely on the law. Twitter operates in many places with different laws, does it apply the law of the jurisdiction in which the reader is currently located, the law of the jurisdiction of the readers nationality, the law of the jurisdiction the sender is located in when the tweet is sent, the law of the jurisdiction of the senders nationality, the law of the jurisdiction in which the particular server handling a particular API request is located, does it just apply the law of, say the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea to all content? And, once a law is chosen, what is the mechanism of ensuring and providing transparency that all and only those cases where content is prohibited by the identified law are blocked? (I mean, while some have a problem with what Twitter says it prohibits, IME a lot more people have a problem that what Twitter actually does has no identifiable relationship to it's stated policies, with things clearly not in violation receiving sanctions and things clearly and flagrantly in violation being tolerated.)
nextlevelwizard 4y ago
>4chan gets away with hate speech every hour of the day. Just because you hate the speech doens't make it hatespeech. >He can't rely on the law, because people are free to say all kinds of awful things without breaking the law When did things change from technocrats advocating for freedom of speech and expersion to being worried about someone tweeting mean words? Growing up I always heard: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.". Now I hear about deplatforming anything and everything that doesn't support status quo.
- mwattsun 4y ago
  In general, I agree with you, but I'm referring to speech in the context of a social network. 4chan is a niche community because it is too rough for most people. Unless Musk wants to turn Twitter into 4chan, he's going to have to get real about moderation and like I said, even 4chan is moderated.
  - nextlevelwizard 4y ago
    >even 4chan is moderated. I really don't think this is as good of an argument as you think it is. Yes, 4chan is moderated to remove illegal content. Then of course there are topic boards and SFW boards which are moderated to keep off-topic and NSFW threads at bay, but then there is always /b/ where everything goes.

paulpauper 4y ago

ppl complain about twitter being bad..4chan is just way more moderation, awful captcha system, new posts always being hidden at the bottom, etc.

mwattsun 4y ago
4chan gets me out of my bubble. It always surprises me how some people look at the world, kind of like how Terry Davis and his Temple OS was interesting.
- Akronymus 4y ago
  With 4chan, if you are willing to actually engage, you can have some of THE best discussions on any platform out there.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    As a wise man said, on 4chan smart people pretend to be stupid. On Reddit, stupid people pretend to be smart.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

nathias 4y ago

And? Free speech means they can say whatever, if you don't like them you can unfollow?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sytelus 4y ago

At the end of this experiment, either Musk will be cancelled or the cancel culture will be gone.

noelsusman 4y ago

I highly doubt Elon actually follows through with his "all legal speech is permissible" plan. Even in that tweet he's not completely unequivocal. He didn't say he's against censorship that goes beyond the law. He said he's against censorship that goes far beyond the law. It is not practical or desirable to rely on the government to set the bounds for speech on giant social media platforms.

jimmygrapes 4y ago

Which law? How is jurisdiction determined? Are there places where merely witnessing certain content is illegal for them but legal for the person posting it? Is a proxy or VPN sufficient to avoid that as a user? Is it going to just be U.S. federal law, California law, U.N. treaties and policies, or what?

syshum 4y ago
US Federal laws and CA law will be the same, 1st amendment trumps anything CA would try to do to curb speech. Same with UN Treaties, it literally not possible for the US to enter into a treaty that violates the constitution, the US Constitution overrules all laws, treaties, agreements, state laws, everything.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > US Federal laws and CA law will be the same No, they won't. > 1st amendment trumps anything CA would try to do to curb speech. Technically, no, the 1st Amendment as such, has no effect on California. The Supreme Court has, however, found that the among the restrictions imposed on the Statss by the 14th Amendment are protections essentially precisely equivalent to those in several parts of the Bill of Rights, including the First Amendment. But that doesn’t make California and federal law identical, it makes the outer limit of what federal and state governments could prohibit generally similar (because of the different interests of federal and state government and the way the strict scrutiny test is applied, even the actual outer limits on the two are not identical.)
  - syshum 4y ago
    >Technically, no, hmmm >>The Supreme Court has, however, found that the among the restrictions imposed on the Statss by the 14th Amendment So then, technically, yes it does apply. >But that doesn’t make California and federal law identical, Exactly, CA can only allow MORE speech, it CAN NOT have a more restrictive speech law than is allowed by the 1st amendment, which is pretty expansive prohibiting only actual defamation and true threats.

Rapzid 4y ago

That's a very unspecific comment. Twitter could censor just about anything they want and be on the right side of the law lol.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> This just in, he just defined it and says he will rely on the law. Twitter operates in many places with different laws, does it apply the law of the jurisdiction in which the reader is currently located, the law of the jurisdiction of the readers nationality, the law of the jurisdiction the sender is located in when the tweet is sent, the law of the jurisdiction of the senders nationality, the law of the jurisdiction in which the particular server handling a particular API request is located, does it just apply the law of, say the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea to all content? And, once a law is chosen, what is the mechanism of ensuring and providing transparency that all and only those cases where content is prohibited by the identified law are blocked? (I mean, while some have a problem with what Twitter says it prohibits, IME a lot more people have a problem that what Twitter actually does has no identifiable relationship to it's stated policies, with things clearly not in violation receiving sanctions and things clearly and flagrantly in violation being tolerated.)

nextlevelwizard 4y ago

>4chan gets away with hate speech every hour of the day. Just because you hate the speech doens't make it hatespeech. >He can't rely on the law, because people are free to say all kinds of awful things without breaking the law When did things change from technocrats advocating for freedom of speech and expersion to being worried about someone tweeting mean words? Growing up I always heard: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.". Now I hear about deplatforming anything and everything that doesn't support status quo.

mwattsun 4y ago
In general, I agree with you, but I'm referring to speech in the context of a social network. 4chan is a niche community because it is too rough for most people. Unless Musk wants to turn Twitter into 4chan, he's going to have to get real about moderation and like I said, even 4chan is moderated.
- nextlevelwizard 4y ago
  >even 4chan is moderated. I really don't think this is as good of an argument as you think it is. Yes, 4chan is moderated to remove illegal content. Then of course there are topic boards and SFW boards which are moderated to keep off-topic and NSFW threads at bay, but then there is always /b/ where everything goes.