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Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. And for years, this person wasn't removed despite many other posts that would have otherwised violated ToS -- sp

Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. And for years, this person wasn't removed despite many other posts that would have otherwised violated ToS -- special treatment for being a head of state. So there's some context to this quip.

Mikeb85 4y ago
> Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. Please, calling it a coup is a joke. France has larger demonstrations almost monthly (at least during non-Covid times), I've seen larger riots in the aftermath of hockey games. It was a few rednecks rioting...
- timkpaine 4y ago
  A few rednecks, millionaires, members of congress, family of Supreme Court justices, White House staff....
- kajecounterhack 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... Read the article. It wasn't a "few rednecks rioting" -- there were two pipe bombs. Elected representatives were in actual danger; capitol police were struggling to hold back the participants. That the "rednecks rioting" were so poorly organized doesn't make it any less a coup. Our elected officials were being sheltered in windowless rooms.
  - usrn 4y ago
    Funny the pipe bomb guy wasn't caught despite how easy it should be to find him. Funny the guy who encouraged everyone to go to the capital (despite the almost universal disagreement) hasn't testified.
  - mumblemumble 4y ago
    Also, the stated purpose was to subvert the democratic process and install their figurehead as leader. I don't know that I'd call it an attempted coup, either, because that gives them too much credit. They weren't particularly well organized, and didn't seem to know what to do once they breached the capitol building. That said, it doesn't really matter that the gilets jaunes were protesting for longer and in larger numbers; directly comparing them is a category error. The gilet jaunes were operating within the norms of how French civil society currently operates. The Capitol protesters/insurgents/whatever were expressly trying to overturn them. Maybe not a coup, maybe not treason, but sedition at the very least.
- jkubicek 4y ago
  A few rednecks whipped into a frenzy by the actual President of the US and backed by his supporters in congress who were attempting to overturn the election. We can't let the laughable ineptitude of these people distract us; they may not be so freakin' stupid the next time they attempt to overthrow our duly elected representatives.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > We can't let the laughable ineptitude of these people distract us We definitely can. The whole world laughs at the US when they call it a coup. We've seen plenty of real coups in our lifetime, this ain't it.
- taylodl 4y ago
  Technically you're right - it was an attempted coup.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Please, calling it a coup is a joke. France has larger demonstrations almost monthly Coup attempts are not defined by crowd size.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    No they're usually defined by military and government officials taking over institutions to overthrow the elected government. None of which happened. And when crowds do lead to governments being overthrown, usually it's crowds in the millions encouraging those institutions to overthrow the government. Again which didn't happen. By any definition it wasn't a coup d'état or even an attempt at anything with a chance of success.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > No they're usually defined by military and government officials taking over institutions to overthrow the elected government. No, a coup doesn't have to be by military and government officials (though they are usually best situated, and in any case were involved in the autocoup attempt of which the attack on the Capitol was a part—but neither the whole, the beginning, or necessarily even the end once it failed.) And a coup attempt can (this specific subtype is called a self-coup, autocoup, or autogolpe) seek to irregularly extend the powers or the term of the current leadership, not overthrow anyone already in power, and this is what the one involving the 1/6 attack was. And a coup attempt doesn't always involve taking over anything, in the same way a murder attempt doesn't always produce a dead body.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        By this logic I could gather 10 friends from the pub, go to a government building, break a few windows, say we want to overthrow the government, then go home and call it an attempted coup. Really though, that's never been successful and calling it an attempt is being extremely generous. It's like saying writing a Tweet is an attempt at writing a novel.
        4y ago
skippyboxedhero 4y ago
A coup? Seriously? Have you seen what a coup looks like? They usually involve armies and mass executions, it isn't some shirtless guy in a headdress. Again though, this is exactly my point. I am not from the US. I couldn't really care less. But the problem is that someone's obviously ludicrous subjective interpretation of an event is being stated as an objective fact, and then applied by social media. Do you not see how this can backfire on you? In other words, you have no problem when it is being rigged against people you don't like but how are you going to respond when it is rigged against you? This is the reason we have courts. This is the reason we have free speech. It is indivisible, applied to everyone equally. None of his posts violated ToS (there are people on Twitter who are orchestrating genocide), you just don't like them.
- markoman 4y ago
  Earlier this year the DoJ charged Stewart Rhodes and 10 other Oath Keepers members with seditious conspiracy for allegedly plotting to prevent by force the transfer of presidential power to Joe Biden. A number of these conspirators were involved in the siege of the Capitol on 01/06/21. Court papers say the group also had weapons stashed at a hotel nearby in Virginia and a quick reaction force ready to ferry them into Washington, D.C., if Rhodes gave the order. A magistrate judge in Texas ordered that Rhodes remain in jail pending trial. Federal code defines seditious conspiracy as two or more people conspiring to overthrow or destroy by force the United States government, or to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any U.S. law.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    It sounds like you're arguing a different issue than GP was replying to (unless your contention is that Trump was leading the Oath Keepers). They replied to: > Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. But that said it still seems like a real stretch to me to say that the US federal government was so weak that there was ever a serious risk of 10 idiots overthrowing it and installing their guy. It seems like the word "coup" is somewhat meaningless if the same word is used to describe highly organized government takeovers by military leaders, as well as a small group of yokels that didn't even know what to do when they got into the capital building so started walking around taking pictures like tourists. I don't know what word I would use instead, probably "riot" or maybe even "rebellion" (actually, Shay's Rebellion seems way worse than what this was), but "coup" has never felt right to me. Also worth pointing out I think is that they've been charged with seditious conspiracy (which I agree is a big deal) but none have been convicted (yet). Prosecutorial overreach is a huge problem in our country that needs to change. (to be clear I'm not saying this is a case of prosecutorial overreach, I honestly don't know. But it is certainly possible given how widespread it is in general in the US). Especially hard hit bit it are marginalized groups that can't adequately defend themselves. I've seen cases where the prosecutor didn't think they stood a chance of getting a conviction but they wanted a plea deal so they charged him with as much as possible to scare him into a guilty plea so they didn't have to go to trial. It also shouldn't be overlooked that there is a massive political incentive for the current people in power to paint this as much as possible as "a coup." Selfishly I do hope they succeed, because I think Trump and many of his people are toxic to our democracy, but I strongly prefer to win "fair and square" rather than hyperbole.

Mikeb85 4y ago

> Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. Please, calling it a coup is a joke. France has larger demonstrations almost monthly (at least during non-Covid times), I've seen larger riots in the aftermath of hockey games. It was a few rednecks rioting...

timkpaine 4y ago
A few rednecks, millionaires, members of congress, family of Supreme Court justices, White House staff....
kajecounterhack 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... Read the article. It wasn't a "few rednecks rioting" -- there were two pipe bombs. Elected representatives were in actual danger; capitol police were struggling to hold back the participants. That the "rednecks rioting" were so poorly organized doesn't make it any less a coup. Our elected officials were being sheltered in windowless rooms.
- usrn 4y ago
  Funny the pipe bomb guy wasn't caught despite how easy it should be to find him. Funny the guy who encouraged everyone to go to the capital (despite the almost universal disagreement) hasn't testified.
- mumblemumble 4y ago
  Also, the stated purpose was to subvert the democratic process and install their figurehead as leader. I don't know that I'd call it an attempted coup, either, because that gives them too much credit. They weren't particularly well organized, and didn't seem to know what to do once they breached the capitol building. That said, it doesn't really matter that the gilets jaunes were protesting for longer and in larger numbers; directly comparing them is a category error. The gilet jaunes were operating within the norms of how French civil society currently operates. The Capitol protesters/insurgents/whatever were expressly trying to overturn them. Maybe not a coup, maybe not treason, but sedition at the very least.
jkubicek 4y ago
A few rednecks whipped into a frenzy by the actual President of the US and backed by his supporters in congress who were attempting to overturn the election. We can't let the laughable ineptitude of these people distract us; they may not be so freakin' stupid the next time they attempt to overthrow our duly elected representatives.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > We can't let the laughable ineptitude of these people distract us We definitely can. The whole world laughs at the US when they call it a coup. We've seen plenty of real coups in our lifetime, this ain't it.
taylodl 4y ago
Technically you're right - it was an attempted coup.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Please, calling it a coup is a joke. France has larger demonstrations almost monthly Coup attempts are not defined by crowd size.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  No they're usually defined by military and government officials taking over institutions to overthrow the elected government. None of which happened. And when crowds do lead to governments being overthrown, usually it's crowds in the millions encouraging those institutions to overthrow the government. Again which didn't happen. By any definition it wasn't a coup d'état or even an attempt at anything with a chance of success.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > No they're usually defined by military and government officials taking over institutions to overthrow the elected government. No, a coup doesn't have to be by military and government officials (though they are usually best situated, and in any case were involved in the autocoup attempt of which the attack on the Capitol was a part—but neither the whole, the beginning, or necessarily even the end once it failed.) And a coup attempt can (this specific subtype is called a self-coup, autocoup, or autogolpe) seek to irregularly extend the powers or the term of the current leadership, not overthrow anyone already in power, and this is what the one involving the 1/6 attack was. And a coup attempt doesn't always involve taking over anything, in the same way a murder attempt doesn't always produce a dead body.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      By this logic I could gather 10 friends from the pub, go to a government building, break a few windows, say we want to overthrow the government, then go home and call it an attempted coup. Really though, that's never been successful and calling it an attempt is being extremely generous. It's like saying writing a Tweet is an attempt at writing a novel.
      - 4y ago

skippyboxedhero 4y ago

A coup? Seriously? Have you seen what a coup looks like? They usually involve armies and mass executions, it isn't some shirtless guy in a headdress. Again though, this is exactly my point. I am not from the US. I couldn't really care less. But the problem is that someone's obviously ludicrous subjective interpretation of an event is being stated as an objective fact, and then applied by social media. Do you not see how this can backfire on you? In other words, you have no problem when it is being rigged against people you don't like but how are you going to respond when it is rigged against you? This is the reason we have courts. This is the reason we have free speech. It is indivisible, applied to everyone equally. None of his posts violated ToS (there are people on Twitter who are orchestrating genocide), you just don't like them.

markoman 4y ago
Earlier this year the DoJ charged Stewart Rhodes and 10 other Oath Keepers members with seditious conspiracy for allegedly plotting to prevent by force the transfer of presidential power to Joe Biden. A number of these conspirators were involved in the siege of the Capitol on 01/06/21. Court papers say the group also had weapons stashed at a hotel nearby in Virginia and a quick reaction force ready to ferry them into Washington, D.C., if Rhodes gave the order. A magistrate judge in Texas ordered that Rhodes remain in jail pending trial. Federal code defines seditious conspiracy as two or more people conspiring to overthrow or destroy by force the United States government, or to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any U.S. law.
- freedomben 4y ago
  It sounds like you're arguing a different issue than GP was replying to (unless your contention is that Trump was leading the Oath Keepers). They replied to: > Their main opponent also tried to stage a coup. But that said it still seems like a real stretch to me to say that the US federal government was so weak that there was ever a serious risk of 10 idiots overthrowing it and installing their guy. It seems like the word "coup" is somewhat meaningless if the same word is used to describe highly organized government takeovers by military leaders, as well as a small group of yokels that didn't even know what to do when they got into the capital building so started walking around taking pictures like tourists. I don't know what word I would use instead, probably "riot" or maybe even "rebellion" (actually, Shay's Rebellion seems way worse than what this was), but "coup" has never felt right to me. Also worth pointing out I think is that they've been charged with seditious conspiracy (which I agree is a big deal) but none have been convicted (yet). Prosecutorial overreach is a huge problem in our country that needs to change. (to be clear I'm not saying this is a case of prosecutorial overreach, I honestly don't know. But it is certainly possible given how widespread it is in general in the US). Especially hard hit bit it are marginalized groups that can't adequately defend themselves. I've seen cases where the prosecutor didn't think they stood a chance of getting a conviction but they wanted a plea deal so they charged him with as much as possible to scare him into a guilty plea so they didn't have to go to trial. It also shouldn't be overlooked that there is a massive political incentive for the current people in power to paint this as much as possible as "a coup." Selfishly I do hope they succeed, because I think Trump and many of his people are toxic to our democracy, but I strongly prefer to win "fair and square" rather than hyperbole.