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> Feel is subjective, but it does matter, and it's something worth exploring for people who spend 8+ hours every day using a keyboard. It can also have importan

> Feel is subjective, but it does matter, and it's something worth exploring for people who spend 8+ hours every day using a keyboard. It can also have important impacts on ergonomics. Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable and people do adapt to new/unfamiliar input devices, and it's not like laptops ship with high-action mechanical keyboards. And regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise, so I'm skeptical regarding how relevant ergonomics is in this field. In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard?

tristor 5y ago
> In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard? The switch type does not control the shape. In fact, one of the oldest and most respected ergonomic keyboard designs (Kinesis Advantage) uses mechanical switches. I use an IV-Works AV3 mechanical keyboard, which uses the Arisu layout, which is a modified Alice layout, which was modeled on the Microsoft Natural keyboard. Many people use split keyboards for ergonomics since they provide the ability to adjust the angle, and these are quite common in the mechanical keyboard world, with some of the better known designs being the ErgoDox and the ZSA Moonlander. Ergonomics is both a function of layout, as you point out, but also the key design because the key design determines key travel, weight, and whether or not you bottom out when typing, which can effect impact on your fingertips and finger joints, in addition to the impacts of layout on your wrists.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  > The switch type does not control the shape. Except for Topre. Not that I'm mad or anything.
mumblemumble 5y ago
> regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise Mostly among people who sell alternative keyboards. What little scientific research has looked into this, has, as far as I've seen, failed to find any measurable ergonomic problems with standard keyboards or the qwerty layout. Which isn't to say that there can't be any adaptive value for people with specific needs. Years ago, I had to switch to a split tented keyboard after I broke my wrist and temporarily lost the ability to pronate it enough to use a standard keyboard. Now that I'm all healed up, though, I mostly stick with it as a matter of taste. I also use my laptop's built-in keyboard when I'm away from home, and it doesn't give me any problems. If anything, I would guess I'm getting some benefit from regularly switching between a split column staggered keyboard and a standard keyboard, since it exposes my hands to a wider variety of movements.
atoav 5y ago
> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? To whom? This is a very subjective thing and the answer is that it matters to some people more than to others. The point is, that even spending 200 Euros on a thing that you use for hours every day can be justified if this is the thing you spend your life with if it feels better. Note: it must not be objectively better, it just needs to feel better.
- arinlen 5y ago
  > To whom? To everyone. My point is that no one was born with an optimal keyboard feel and a crave for a particular type of clickiness. Most of the talk around mechanical keyboards always refer to acquired tastes, without any consideration that people can and do adapt to sub-milimiter differences in key layouts and range.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    So what? Just buy what I prefer now.
    - arinlen 4y ago
      > So what? Just buy what I prefer now. And that's perfectly fine. Just don't try to justify buying grossly overpriced luxury goods due to whimsical personal tastes as a health and safety requirement. Disclaimer: I own and use a mid-range mechanical keyboard as my main worktool.
bsder 4y ago
> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable Well, the existence proof that it does matter is the shitty Apple laptop keyboard that had no travel and broke if you got micron-sized dust particles in it. In addition, I pound keyboards. So, the force of the spring absorbs force more gradually before the key bottoms out. That's probably better for my fingers.

tristor 5y ago

> In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard? The switch type does not control the shape. In fact, one of the oldest and most respected ergonomic keyboard designs (Kinesis Advantage) uses mechanical switches. I use an IV-Works AV3 mechanical keyboard, which uses the Arisu layout, which is a modified Alice layout, which was modeled on the Microsoft Natural keyboard. Many people use split keyboards for ergonomics since they provide the ability to adjust the angle, and these are quite common in the mechanical keyboard world, with some of the better known designs being the ErgoDox and the ZSA Moonlander. Ergonomics is both a function of layout, as you point out, but also the key design because the key design determines key travel, weight, and whether or not you bottom out when typing, which can effect impact on your fingertips and finger joints, in addition to the impacts of layout on your wrists.

mumblemumble 5y ago
> The switch type does not control the shape. Except for Topre. Not that I'm mad or anything.

mumblemumble 5y ago

> regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise Mostly among people who sell alternative keyboards. What little scientific research has looked into this, has, as far as I've seen, failed to find any measurable ergonomic problems with standard keyboards or the qwerty layout. Which isn't to say that there can't be any adaptive value for people with specific needs. Years ago, I had to switch to a split tented keyboard after I broke my wrist and temporarily lost the ability to pronate it enough to use a standard keyboard. Now that I'm all healed up, though, I mostly stick with it as a matter of taste. I also use my laptop's built-in keyboard when I'm away from home, and it doesn't give me any problems. If anything, I would guess I'm getting some benefit from regularly switching between a split column staggered keyboard and a standard keyboard, since it exposes my hands to a wider variety of movements.

atoav 5y ago

> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? To whom? This is a very subjective thing and the answer is that it matters to some people more than to others. The point is, that even spending 200 Euros on a thing that you use for hours every day can be justified if this is the thing you spend your life with if it feels better. Note: it must not be objectively better, it just needs to feel better.

arinlen 5y ago
> To whom? To everyone. My point is that no one was born with an optimal keyboard feel and a crave for a particular type of clickiness. Most of the talk around mechanical keyboards always refer to acquired tastes, without any consideration that people can and do adapt to sub-milimiter differences in key layouts and range.
- fomine3 4y ago
  So what? Just buy what I prefer now.
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > So what? Just buy what I prefer now. And that's perfectly fine. Just don't try to justify buying grossly overpriced luxury goods due to whimsical personal tastes as a health and safety requirement. Disclaimer: I own and use a mid-range mechanical keyboard as my main worktool.

bsder 4y ago

> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable Well, the existence proof that it does matter is the shitty Apple laptop keyboard that had no travel and broke if you got micron-sized dust particles in it. In addition, I pound keyboards. So, the force of the spring absorbs force more gradually before the key bottoms out. That's probably better for my fingers.