3 ms·

scg is right, this is indeed incredibly stupid. How can they own something you make in your spare time.

pestaa 15y ago
In the video game industry this is rather common -- developers can be contractually forced to hand over their pet projects to the company they work for.
- 32321215 15y ago
  This is the most shocking thing I heard this hour.
  - JonAtkinson 15y ago
    I don't understand why people don't reject their employment contracts when they include this sort of dumb shit. An employment contract is a negotiation.
    - kurige 15y ago
      Maybe... they want a job and need the money? Not everybody here at HN seems to realize that negotiation is not always appropriate when your first priority is to get a job. Thankfully I've never been in that sort of situation, but I've certainly been desperate enough in the past where I would have happily signed if it didn't look like they would be willing to "bend the rules" for me.
      - 32321215 15y ago
        Or maybe they just love the job and think that the legal dept is a dick but that does not overshadow their love of the work being done at this company.
    - bmelton 15y ago
      I signed a similar clause, and while I probably could have balked and gone elsewhere, it is literally the only aspect of my employment that I don't like. The people I work with are brilliant (which I knew going in), I am paid very fairly, my bonuses are tied directly to my personal performance, I have flexible hours, and complete autonomy to do whatever I need to get my job done. If I _need_ to purchase a $10,000 server to do my job, I just buy one and expense it at the end of the month. I _might_ have to explain the need when someone sees the expense, but that's par for the course. If I need to buy a USB drive to get my work done, or a relevant book, nobody will bat an eye at it. Also, I haven't chanced it, but I'm guessing that my employer would only exercise control if I built something related or tangential to our core product. If I made an IOS game, I'm pretty sure I get to keep it... but if I build a widget that makes the support or administration of our core product more efficient to use, I'm guessing I'd have a hard time starting my own business around it without my current employer pulling out the lawyers.
      - kbutler 15y ago
        Better check that guess before relying on it.
chr15 15y ago
This is common in almost every mid to large size corporation in the US with a legal department. If you're working on a side project, it might be best to clear it up with your employer and make sure it's not a conflict of interest. It's mainly an issue of copyright. The company wants to make sure it owns the IP to every line of code you write. For example, if you do some work on the weekend they want to make sure they own the copyright to that. Every company I've worked for had a clause in my hiring contracts. Some will enforce it more than others. Here's some in depth discussion: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-st http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...
- 32321215 15y ago
  What is shocking to me is that if I were working in say the automobile industry and I make a highly customized bike, these kind of clause would mean that my employer owns all of that. Some may argue since I have paid for the components and not the company that would save me, but to be fair the programmer paid for his/her laptop/desktop, servers (if any), maybe even some programming tools. Does having most of the stuff to make a side project come for free make me eligible for giving up my IP to my employer? This is just insane.

In the video game industry this is rather common -- developers can be contractually forced to hand over their pet projects to the company they work for.

32321215 15y ago
This is the most shocking thing I heard this hour.
- JonAtkinson 15y ago
  I don't understand why people don't reject their employment contracts when they include this sort of dumb shit. An employment contract is a negotiation.
  - kurige 15y ago
    Maybe... they want a job and need the money? Not everybody here at HN seems to realize that negotiation is not always appropriate when your first priority is to get a job. Thankfully I've never been in that sort of situation, but I've certainly been desperate enough in the past where I would have happily signed if it didn't look like they would be willing to "bend the rules" for me.
    - 32321215 15y ago
      Or maybe they just love the job and think that the legal dept is a dick but that does not overshadow their love of the work being done at this company.
  - bmelton 15y ago
    I signed a similar clause, and while I probably could have balked and gone elsewhere, it is literally the only aspect of my employment that I don't like. The people I work with are brilliant (which I knew going in), I am paid very fairly, my bonuses are tied directly to my personal performance, I have flexible hours, and complete autonomy to do whatever I need to get my job done. If I _need_ to purchase a $10,000 server to do my job, I just buy one and expense it at the end of the month. I _might_ have to explain the need when someone sees the expense, but that's par for the course. If I need to buy a USB drive to get my work done, or a relevant book, nobody will bat an eye at it. Also, I haven't chanced it, but I'm guessing that my employer would only exercise control if I built something related or tangential to our core product. If I made an IOS game, I'm pretty sure I get to keep it... but if I build a widget that makes the support or administration of our core product more efficient to use, I'm guessing I'd have a hard time starting my own business around it without my current employer pulling out the lawyers.
    - kbutler 15y ago
      Better check that guess before relying on it.

chr15 15y ago

This is common in almost every mid to large size corporation in the US with a legal department. If you're working on a side project, it might be best to clear it up with your employer and make sure it's not a conflict of interest. It's mainly an issue of copyright. The company wants to make sure it owns the IP to every line of code you write. For example, if you do some work on the weekend they want to make sure they own the copyright to that. Every company I've worked for had a clause in my hiring contracts. Some will enforce it more than others. Here's some in depth discussion: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-st http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...

32321215 15y ago
What is shocking to me is that if I were working in say the automobile industry and I make a highly customized bike, these kind of clause would mean that my employer owns all of that. Some may argue since I have paid for the components and not the company that would save me, but to be fair the programmer paid for his/her laptop/desktop, servers (if any), maybe even some programming tools. Does having most of the stuff to make a side project come for free make me eligible for giving up my IP to my employer? This is just insane.