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> Russia doesn't want to conquer Ukraine, they want to keep NATO away from that border If Russia wants to keep NATO away from their border (which already exist

> Russia doesn't want to conquer Ukraine, they want to keep NATO away from that border If Russia wants to keep NATO away from their border (which already exists in the Baltics), then why did they create the scenario where Sweden and Finland are now joining NATO? Do you think Putin is stupid? Why would they be afraid of a NATO offense on Russia when NATO won't do defense to protect an invasion against Ukraine?

CapricornNoble 5y ago
>>>Why would they be afraid of a NATO offense on Russia Watch this: https://youtu.be/MkrLUFAcjH0 https://youtu.be/MkrLUFAcjH0 and this: https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw
- reducesuffering 5y ago
  I’ve literally seen both of those already. They are well researched and accurate. But just because Putin could be irrationally paranoid it doesn’t mean NATO has done anything other than just defend the territorial sovereignty of Eastern Europe here.
  - CapricornNoble 5y ago
    I think the key comment on Russian psychology was that "anything that can go wrong, will, eventually". They are basically the opposite of HN's guideline of "interpret posts with the other party's best/most good faith argument". So in 2007 when we decided to put ABM missiles in Poland, Russia interpreted that in the worst way possible ("This is a prelude to an eventual preemptive strike.") and no amount of declarations that we are just defending Eastern European sovereignty will ever change their minds. To them, that's not "irrationally paranoid" given their history. If we did NOT anticipate that this would provoke a hard-power response, then we are incompetent for failing to understand the decision-making process of our adversary. If we DID anticipate this kind of response from Russia, and we did what we did anyway, then we are malicious, for precipitating a chain of events that are getting innocent civilians killed. Geniuses for getting the Russians to shatter their hard AND soft power without it costing a single NATO military life, but definitely malicious sociopaths nonetheless.

CapricornNoble 5y ago

>>>Why would they be afraid of a NATO offense on Russia Watch this: https://youtu.be/MkrLUFAcjH0 https://youtu.be/MkrLUFAcjH0 and this: https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw https://youtu.be/kF9KretXqJw

reducesuffering 5y ago
I’ve literally seen both of those already. They are well researched and accurate. But just because Putin could be irrationally paranoid it doesn’t mean NATO has done anything other than just defend the territorial sovereignty of Eastern Europe here.
- CapricornNoble 5y ago
  I think the key comment on Russian psychology was that "anything that can go wrong, will, eventually". They are basically the opposite of HN's guideline of "interpret posts with the other party's best/most good faith argument". So in 2007 when we decided to put ABM missiles in Poland, Russia interpreted that in the worst way possible ("This is a prelude to an eventual preemptive strike.") and no amount of declarations that we are just defending Eastern European sovereignty will ever change their minds. To them, that's not "irrationally paranoid" given their history. If we did NOT anticipate that this would provoke a hard-power response, then we are incompetent for failing to understand the decision-making process of our adversary. If we DID anticipate this kind of response from Russia, and we did what we did anyway, then we are malicious, for precipitating a chain of events that are getting innocent civilians killed. Geniuses for getting the Russians to shatter their hard AND soft power without it costing a single NATO military life, but definitely malicious sociopaths nonetheless.