4 ms·

I've been using mechanical keyboards since 1992. I can definitely tell the difference between major switch types, and I can also tell the differences between s

I've been using mechanical keyboards since 1992. I can definitely tell the difference between major switch types, and I can also tell the differences between switches I'm familiar with. For the most part though, you're probably right that if you just sat down at an unknown keyboard and started typing you'd probably only be able to identify it's major type and whether or not you like the feel of it. Feel is subjective, but it does matter, and it's something worth exploring for people who spend 8+ hours every day using a keyboard. It can also have important impacts on ergonomics.

arinlen 5y ago
> Feel is subjective, but it does matter, and it's something worth exploring for people who spend 8+ hours every day using a keyboard. It can also have important impacts on ergonomics. Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable and people do adapt to new/unfamiliar input devices, and it's not like laptops ship with high-action mechanical keyboards. And regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise, so I'm skeptical regarding how relevant ergonomics is in this field. In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard?
- tristor 5y ago
  > In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard? The switch type does not control the shape. In fact, one of the oldest and most respected ergonomic keyboard designs (Kinesis Advantage) uses mechanical switches. I use an IV-Works AV3 mechanical keyboard, which uses the Arisu layout, which is a modified Alice layout, which was modeled on the Microsoft Natural keyboard. Many people use split keyboards for ergonomics since they provide the ability to adjust the angle, and these are quite common in the mechanical keyboard world, with some of the better known designs being the ErgoDox and the ZSA Moonlander. Ergonomics is both a function of layout, as you point out, but also the key design because the key design determines key travel, weight, and whether or not you bottom out when typing, which can effect impact on your fingertips and finger joints, in addition to the impacts of layout on your wrists.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    > The switch type does not control the shape. Except for Topre. Not that I'm mad or anything.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  > regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise Mostly among people who sell alternative keyboards. What little scientific research has looked into this, has, as far as I've seen, failed to find any measurable ergonomic problems with standard keyboards or the qwerty layout. Which isn't to say that there can't be any adaptive value for people with specific needs. Years ago, I had to switch to a split tented keyboard after I broke my wrist and temporarily lost the ability to pronate it enough to use a standard keyboard. Now that I'm all healed up, though, I mostly stick with it as a matter of taste. I also use my laptop's built-in keyboard when I'm away from home, and it doesn't give me any problems. If anything, I would guess I'm getting some benefit from regularly switching between a split column staggered keyboard and a standard keyboard, since it exposes my hands to a wider variety of movements.
- atoav 5y ago
  > Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? To whom? This is a very subjective thing and the answer is that it matters to some people more than to others. The point is, that even spending 200 Euros on a thing that you use for hours every day can be justified if this is the thing you spend your life with if it feels better. Note: it must not be objectively better, it just needs to feel better.
  - arinlen 5y ago
    > To whom? To everyone. My point is that no one was born with an optimal keyboard feel and a crave for a particular type of clickiness. Most of the talk around mechanical keyboards always refer to acquired tastes, without any consideration that people can and do adapt to sub-milimiter differences in key layouts and range.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      So what? Just buy what I prefer now.
      - arinlen 5y ago
        > So what? Just buy what I prefer now. And that's perfectly fine. Just don't try to justify buying grossly overpriced luxury goods due to whimsical personal tastes as a health and safety requirement. Disclaimer: I own and use a mid-range mechanical keyboard as my main worktool.
- bsder 5y ago
  > Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable Well, the existence proof that it does matter is the shitty Apple laptop keyboard that had no travel and broke if you got micron-sized dust particles in it. In addition, I pound keyboards. So, the force of the spring absorbs force more gradually before the key bottoms out. That's probably better for my fingers.
taneq 5y ago
How noticeably have you found that switches age? I've been bashing away on this keyboard for about 7 years now, and I just got the latest model for work. Both apparently use Cherry Brown switches but the new one feels subtly 'squishy' compared to the old one, and I'm wondering if they've changed the formula or if I just need to 'run it in' and then they'll feel the same. Also I wonder how much of the preference is like old running shoes - I don't care how ratty my old shoes are or how nice the new ones are, the new ones will feel wrong compared with the old ones for a while.
- tristor 5y ago
  > the new one feels subtly 'squishy' compared to the old one, and I'm wondering if they've changed the formula Yes, newer Cherry switches are different from older switches. You'll see people in the community refer to older switches as "Vintage". Also, if you use MX Browns, you might find you enjoy some other tactile switches more for newer boards. Browns these days generally feel a bit squishy/loose and somewhat scratchy due to the nylon components. I find I like POM stems, with minimal lubrication, and slow springs with a mid-weight (62g). Of course, all this is a matter of preference, but I'd encourage you to try some POM stem tactiles like Holy Pandas. Edit: Glorious makes pre-made "Holy Pandas" under their own branding using the original INVYR tooling: https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-panda-mechanical-switches https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-panda-mechani...
  - taneq 5y ago
    Interesting! Thanks for the info, I'll give them a go if I get a chance. Also good to know I wasn't just imagining it - my new keyboard will probably end up at home since it seems quieter, while the old one will move to work where it won't interrupt nap time so much.

arinlen 5y ago

> Feel is subjective, but it does matter, and it's something worth exploring for people who spend 8+ hours every day using a keyboard. It can also have important impacts on ergonomics. Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable and people do adapt to new/unfamiliar input devices, and it's not like laptops ship with high-action mechanical keyboards. And regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise, so I'm skeptical regarding how relevant ergonomics is in this field. In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard?

tristor 5y ago
> In fact, isn't a standard Microsoft Natural ergonomics keyboard way better than your typical mechanical switch keyboard? The switch type does not control the shape. In fact, one of the oldest and most respected ergonomic keyboard designs (Kinesis Advantage) uses mechanical switches. I use an IV-Works AV3 mechanical keyboard, which uses the Arisu layout, which is a modified Alice layout, which was modeled on the Microsoft Natural keyboard. Many people use split keyboards for ergonomics since they provide the ability to adjust the angle, and these are quite common in the mechanical keyboard world, with some of the better known designs being the ErgoDox and the ZSA Moonlander. Ergonomics is both a function of layout, as you point out, but also the key design because the key design determines key travel, weight, and whether or not you bottom out when typing, which can effect impact on your fingertips and finger joints, in addition to the impacts of layout on your wrists.
- mumblemumble 5y ago
  > The switch type does not control the shape. Except for Topre. Not that I'm mad or anything.
mumblemumble 5y ago
> regarding ergonomics, the standard keyboard layout is renowned for not being stellar ergonomics-wise Mostly among people who sell alternative keyboards. What little scientific research has looked into this, has, as far as I've seen, failed to find any measurable ergonomic problems with standard keyboards or the qwerty layout. Which isn't to say that there can't be any adaptive value for people with specific needs. Years ago, I had to switch to a split tented keyboard after I broke my wrist and temporarily lost the ability to pronate it enough to use a standard keyboard. Now that I'm all healed up, though, I mostly stick with it as a matter of taste. I also use my laptop's built-in keyboard when I'm away from home, and it doesn't give me any problems. If anything, I would guess I'm getting some benefit from regularly switching between a split column staggered keyboard and a standard keyboard, since it exposes my hands to a wider variety of movements.
atoav 5y ago
> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? To whom? This is a very subjective thing and the answer is that it matters to some people more than to others. The point is, that even spending 200 Euros on a thing that you use for hours every day can be justified if this is the thing you spend your life with if it feels better. Note: it must not be objectively better, it just needs to feel better.
- arinlen 5y ago
  > To whom? To everyone. My point is that no one was born with an optimal keyboard feel and a crave for a particular type of clickiness. Most of the talk around mechanical keyboards always refer to acquired tastes, without any consideration that people can and do adapt to sub-milimiter differences in key layouts and range.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    So what? Just buy what I prefer now.
    - arinlen 5y ago
      > So what? Just buy what I prefer now. And that's perfectly fine. Just don't try to justify buying grossly overpriced luxury goods due to whimsical personal tastes as a health and safety requirement. Disclaimer: I own and use a mid-range mechanical keyboard as my main worktool.
bsder 5y ago
> Does this level of detail regarding feel really matter? I mean, all keyboards are usable Well, the existence proof that it does matter is the shitty Apple laptop keyboard that had no travel and broke if you got micron-sized dust particles in it. In addition, I pound keyboards. So, the force of the spring absorbs force more gradually before the key bottoms out. That's probably better for my fingers.

taneq 5y ago

How noticeably have you found that switches age? I've been bashing away on this keyboard for about 7 years now, and I just got the latest model for work. Both apparently use Cherry Brown switches but the new one feels subtly 'squishy' compared to the old one, and I'm wondering if they've changed the formula or if I just need to 'run it in' and then they'll feel the same. Also I wonder how much of the preference is like old running shoes - I don't care how ratty my old shoes are or how nice the new ones are, the new ones will feel wrong compared with the old ones for a while.

tristor 5y ago
> the new one feels subtly 'squishy' compared to the old one, and I'm wondering if they've changed the formula Yes, newer Cherry switches are different from older switches. You'll see people in the community refer to older switches as "Vintage". Also, if you use MX Browns, you might find you enjoy some other tactile switches more for newer boards. Browns these days generally feel a bit squishy/loose and somewhat scratchy due to the nylon components. I find I like POM stems, with minimal lubrication, and slow springs with a mid-weight (62g). Of course, all this is a matter of preference, but I'd encourage you to try some POM stem tactiles like Holy Pandas. Edit: Glorious makes pre-made "Holy Pandas" under their own branding using the original INVYR tooling: https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-panda-mechanical-switches https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/glorious-panda-mechani...
- taneq 5y ago
  Interesting! Thanks for the info, I'll give them a go if I get a chance. Also good to know I wasn't just imagining it - my new keyboard will probably end up at home since it seems quieter, while the old one will move to work where it won't interrupt nap time so much.